Need to know....

fma08

fma08

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(I'm doing some venting on a topic that's beaten to shreds so feel free to skip over)

I had forgotten how much this term is thrown around in college. Finals are now fast approaching and I hear this in every class, "What do we need to know for the test?" :glare: When did everything switch from should know to need to know? As I look back on it now, all of that happened in paramedic school too and now I'm just realizing how much was over looked after reading all the threads on here. For some careers, need to know may be fine... But this is health care! People's lives are dependent on what we know! Can we afford to be saying "What do we need to know for the test?" I'm a NR certified paramedic.... But I've come to realize that's not enough... Call me ignorant... or idiotic up until now... but seriously... Reading all these threads I'm not the only one that realizes this... And it can't be just the people on here that realize this... How do we get the people on the state boards, the national registry, in the education offices to realize "what we need to know for the test" is not even close to enough?

Anyway... carry on ^_^
 
I just got the definition of "cleaning" wrong on a practice exam...do I really NEED to know that?
 
clean vs. medically clean?
 
Well those spots of blood and vomit may make some think of us as unprofessional...
 
I've been an EMT for going on 6 years and those years include ambulance and ER-tech'ing.

I have *yet* encountered a point in an ambulance or in the ER where I had to whip out a microscope and identify cells as epithelial :P (Our medic pre-req A&P class focused weeks on this)

Joking aside, I do see your point and it's a good one....Though, come June, I may be one that asks myself "What should I study/need to know for the test"
 
True, you are right, we are not pathologists, we won't be looking at smears seeing if they are cancerous or not. But, nothing wrong with that in A&P, knowing squamous, cuboidal, columnar, simple, stratified, where they are, what they do, form fits function, etc. Need to know how the body works before understanding what goes wrong with it. (I'm not trying to bust chops here in this thread, so please don't take offense at my replies, just trying to prove points here)
 
stephenrb81 said:
I've been an EMT for going on 6 years and those years include ambulance and ER-tech'ing.

I have *yet* encountered a point in an ambulance or in the ER where I had to whip out a microscope and identify cells as epithelial :P (Our medic pre-req A&P class focused weeks on this)

Joking aside, I do see your point and it's a good one....Though, come June, I may be one that asks myself "What should I study/need to know for the test"
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Are you really sure? Do you believe you do not need to know the difference epithelial cells and those of muscle tissue?

I know I verily rarely used my communications portion of VHF vs. UHF or even hazmat, NCIS, etc.. yet: I better know it if I need to use it.

Alike physicians whom become orthopedic surgeons rarely if ever need to be able to read an ECG... unless they are performing a surgery and a fatty embolism is thrown then cardiac arrest occurs.. Again, we are taught various points for a reason of understanding and the possibility of using it.

R/r 911
 
fma08 said:
(I'm doing some venting on a topic that's beaten to shreds so feel free to skip over)

I had forgotten how much this term is thrown around in college. Finals are now fast approaching and I hear this in every class, "What do we need to know for the test?" :glare: When did everything switch from should know to need to know? As I look back on it now, all of that happened in paramedic school too and now I'm just realizing how much was over looked after reading all the threads on here. For some careers, need to know may be fine... But this is health care! People's lives are dependent on what we know! Can we afford to be saying "What do we need to know for the test?" I'm a NR certified paramedic.... But I've come to realize that's not enough... Call me ignorant... or idiotic up until now... but seriously... Reading all these threads I'm not the only one that realizes this... And it can't be just the people on here that realize this... How do we get the people on the state boards, the national registry, in the education offices to realize "what we need to know for the test" is not even close to enough?

Anyway... carry on ^_^
Click to expand...

Hey you know what is even sadder then students only being concerned about what they need to know for the test? The teachers actually telling the students specifically what they need to know that will be on the test and nothing else.
 
I understand the joking, yet I have found most medics do not understand the basics of life (cells). Thus many fail to recognize how the basics of pharmacology work or be able understand the development of disease processes.

I suggest one to ask a Paramedic on how most antibiotics actually work in the body, in other words how does the antibiotics functions actually kill the bacteria? ... See the responses, and now ask how much education in pharmacology a Paramedic receives?

R/r 911
 
LOL This hits close to home as we're having a review tonight for our next test (which is on Monday). "What do we need to pass the test?" will be the question everyone wants answered tonight......and the answer will be......"Everything we've gone over in the last 4 months!". I've been reviewing everything we've studied since the previous exam as well as refreshing myself with the previous info as well. We should be ready for whatever comes our way.
 
Okay, all joking aside I think there are 2 distinct groups of paramedics or even EMTs as a whole out there: The group that does only what they need to in order to pass the tests and get by on the road. They do just enough but never anything above and beyond. They ask "what do we need to know to pass the test" Then theres the group that genuinely learns that material to have the education and constantly builds on that base knowledge throughout their career. I would have to assume that most of the people on forums such as this are part of the later group if you are willing to spend your "free time" reading and writing about mainly educational topics.

As a global group, we just need to weed out the first group so our jobs can be more respected and accepted as a career. It starts with us- if we act professional, continue to learn, and elevate ourselves then credibility will follow.
 
FF894 That's true. However, when one (like myself) enters an education system that's flawed, how are we supposed to recognize that it isn't enough? I entered class believing that what my instructors were teaching me was what I should know. All I had as a reference was Basic, and nothing before that. I didn't know what to expect so I could only assume that since it was their job, that would be performing it up to par... But looking back that wasn't the case. Yes it was enough to pass the test... but that's what this thread is about... Enough to pass the test isn't enough.
 
I think a lot of this is an offshoot of the Liability Insurance Industry. Firms are so much more invested in being able to prove that people were presented with the information than they are in students actually leaving a class with some knowledge or understanding of the topic.

The CYA attitude of the employer is reflected in the CYA attitude of the school, instructors, and finally trickling down to the students. I think its very, very sad.
 
Ridryder911 said:
I understand the joking, yet I have found most medics do not understand the basics of life (cells). Thus many fail to recognize how the basics of pharmacology work or be able understand the development of disease processes.

I suggest one to ask a Paramedic on how most antibiotics actually work in the body, in other words how does the antibiotics functions actually kill the bacteria? ... See the responses, and now ask how much education in pharmacology a Paramedic receives?

R/r 911
Click to expand...

Beta lactams interfering with transpeptidation, aminoglycosides inhibiting protien synthesis by inhibiting mRNA to attach to the 30s subunit of the bacterial ribosome, sulfonilamides competing with PABA to prevent folic acid production... None of that did I learn in medic school, it was in my introductory microbiology class. We didn't even touch antibiotics as I remember, other than they are used for various infections... :glare: Something is seriously wrong here. Granted, I probably won't hang a vancomycin drip pre-hospitally. I may encounter it on an interfacility transfer.
 
FMA- I hear what you are saying (and agree) but what I think I am trying to say in a not-too-effective way is that if the majority of people think that doing just enough to get by is adequate then thats the way it will continue. I have seen medics who don't know how to properly read a 12-lead say its okay because they are so close to the hospitals and the hospital can decide what to do. That makes us all look like a bunch of "ambualance drivers" I think over time instructors and institutions get burnt out by seeing these students over and over again. Students that come through EMTP just to get on a fire department and have no real interest in actually learning the material. So my point was that maybe it starts at the student level. I would find it hard to believe that in most credible institutions if a student approached an instructor for extra help, clarification, or even additional material the instructor would say no. If instructors see quality students they will treat them differently. Frankly they should be harder on the ones who just do enough to just pass by but it comes down to $$ signs in most cases. Before everyone jumps on me I know what I have said is not 100% of the institutions and students that are out there but it is the majority. Its people like those that are on this forum that make up the minority.
 
For sure that if the student wants to learn the material thoroughly they could find a way. $$ plays a huge factor too like you said. If the institution fails too many people for being incompetent then it makes them look bad for not passing anyone and then nobody wants to go there so it would seem that they need to lower their standards as such. It's ludicrous. The really sad fact was that even with the standards as lax where I went, it was still common for about half of the class to drop out though out the year.

Now all of that being said, it seems that schools will not change their standards until the accreditation boards or national registry changes what it requires for curriculum. So what would it take for them to realize that things are going to he**?
 
fma08 said:
Now all of that being said, it seems that schools will not change their standards until the accreditation boards or national registry changes what it requires for curriculum. So what would it take for them to realize that things are going to he**?
Click to expand...


What is that quote.. "First we shoot all the lawyers......." Can't remember who said it and where... but it seems apropos... only maybe substitute the insurance companies that the lawyers feed on... Then the rest of the attorneys will go back to real law
 
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