Live sticks

gradygirl

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Does anyone have a specific opinion on doing live sticks during training?

We just did it in our class and I ended up with one vein blown, another nicked, and a third that bled like a stuck pig.

It's not that I'm necessarily against live sticks, as I think it's important to learn the differences between a rubber arm and a human arm, but I want to hear my more advanced colleagues' opinions.
 
TCERT1987 said:
Does anyone have a specific opinion on doing live sticks during training?

We just did it in our class and I ended up with one vein blown, another nicked, and a third that bled like a stuck pig.

It's not that I'm necessarily against live sticks, as I think it's important to learn the differences between a rubber arm and a human arm, but I want to hear my more advanced colleagues' opinions.
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As far as the advanced colleagues part sorry your ahead of me. But im just gunna thtow my opinion out their. Your right you do need to learn the diffrence between rubber arm and real, but i'm not too sure about sticking each other, i always wondered if you could go down to the county jail and ask for volunteers(obviously taking extreme x100 precautions).
 
CFRBryan347768 said:
i always wondered if you could go down to the county jail and ask for volunteers(obviously taking extreme x100 precautions).
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I dunno about that Bryan. Here, as students we're hardly allowed to say boo to inmates.
 
So if you are not going to stick each other, who do you think your first sticks should be on?
We did them on each other at the very beginning of paramedic school. I think it's a good idea. We are all in the same boat and we all need to learn. My class sounds like it was better prepared than yours tho.. it is a maximum of 2 sticks per student and most of us got flash on both of them. We spent a LOT of time on mannequin arms first.
 
we did our first sticks on each other as well at the beginning of class, but we also had to pass an evaluation on a mannequin arm before we were allowed to stick each other. we also had about a 2 to 1 student teacher ratio so everything was controlled and watched carefully. for me i'm normally a hard stick but that was the first time i've ever had a successful one on me first try :rolleyes: anyhow i think that it is important to have the experience before going to a patient. it's also important to be able to tell a nervous pt honestly that you've done this before imo. that's my two cents :)
 
We never did live sticks in class... we were assessed on a couple of different rubber arms, and we worked with staff 1:1 for the first few sticks in clinical sites.

Sapphyre said:
I dunno about that Bryan. Here, as students we're hardly allowed to say boo to inmates.
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When I was doing my -P school student time, I would often get tasked to draw labs and start IV's on the folks who had an acute allergy to handcuffs manifesting in chest pain (sometimes known as incarciertis). When I introduced myself, some of the prisoners would balk... The PD officers watching them usually informed them that if they didn't want care. they could go back to jail... so they always chose to let me get the IV and vitals. :)
(Of course, if they had insisted, I'd have gotten another staff member to get the IV before they refused care to avoid me.)
 
Seems like having students practice on another prior to practicing on patients is a good idea.

That way you can REALLY know what works and what hurts like hell. Although obviously more invasive and potentially dangerous, it's like taking BPs on each other. You know that one kid that would keep the cuff deflating at an excruciatingly slow rate all the way down to zero, even after he caught your numbers? And your arm would hurt and get all tingly-numb and you just wanted to punch him with the other arm? I bet that taught you real well to keep that cuff inflated on patients only as long as needed.

There's less stress too when you know you're doing it on someone who is learning as well. They're going to be much more understanding if you mess up than a patient would be.

This is only a theoretical opinion, though. I'm taking my IV class in July and I know we'll be practicing plenty on each other, so I'll let you know how it goes.
 
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I think its a great way to relieve lots of anxiety. We were all terrified to get that first stick but most of the class left feeling like pros.

PS.. our room must have looked like a battlefield. We all made a big mess.
 
We're getting ready to do a live stick lab here soon. I'll also let you know how it goes. I'm hoping it relieves some anxiety of sticking people..
 
pumper12fireman said:
We're getting ready to do a live stick lab here soon. I'll also let you know how it goes. I'm hoping it relieves some anxiety of sticking people..
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don't worry it does :P and good luck! :rolleyes:
 
We did a few sticks on a dummy before we went into the ER to do live sticks. Oh boy that was difficult. I missed so many sticks that I could licensed in NYS as an acupucturist. It works too. Its amazing how many people forget the reason they came and go home. Now I get most of my sticks.
 
Can anyone tell me how the manequins work? Wouldn't there already be holes in it? And how do you know if you missed or did worse damage?
 
I think doing it on each other is a very good thing.It is a lot different than the IV arm.I was one of the students that got to do a stick on a patient on an ambulance clinical.There is nothing like the feeling of getting your first 'back of the ambulance IV"it's awesome.
 
mikie333 said:
Can anyone tell me how the manequins work? Wouldn't there already be holes in it? And how do you know if you missed or did worse damage?
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there are plenty of holes in it. It does affect it but not really enough. You know if you missed if you don't get flash, just like in real life. Only in real life its harder. Dummies aren't afraid of needles, don't flinch and have better vasculatur than some patients.
 
firecoins said:
there are plenty of holes in it. It does affect it but not really enough. You know if you missed if you don't get flash, just like in real life. Only in real life its harder. Dummies aren't afraid of needles, don't flinch and have better vasculatur than some patients.
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So how do you know if you were 'successful?'
 
mikie333 said:
So how do you know if you were 'successful?'
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the arm usually has a bag attached that is filled with red coloured water in it. so the veins are full of red water. when you stick the vein, if done properly you'll get a flash just like on real pts.

it is fallible though, depending on the age of the arm and how much water they got in it. sometimes, as in my case, it was too full and as soon as i stuck it it started squirting everywhere :rolleyes: here's what one looks like
 
mikie333 said:
So how do you know if you were 'successful?'
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like Katie said, tere is fake blood. You will see "flash" of red water inside the needle
 
There is good points and bad points of using "live" sticks. Mannequins should be used to develop the technique and procedure, as well the "skin" should be replaced after the semester, and replaced tubings.

Live sticks also potential liability, One has to be supervised well, to prevent potential problems. I do agree they should occur as it gives good experience and one can develop empathy for patients...

R/r 911
 
We practiced our technique on manniquins until we got signed off on it. Then we practiced on each other, usually with supervision. Another couple of guys and myself were virtual pin cushions by the end of the week as we had good easy veins. We all were taught and followed the same procedure so there were no shortcuts. If you stuck me then I got to stick you. I felt it was good realistic training as we had a variety of easy and hard veins to practice on.
 
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