If I were the boss of EMS....

mcdonl

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If I were the boss of EMS, I would allow students to go through the entire educational program and get their medic certificate but need to get their LICENSE in increments. So, you go to medic school, get certified and then hit the road as basic for a predetermined about of hours/calls, step to intermediate and do the same there and then become a practicing medic.

If I were the boss of EMS I would not allow someone to maintain their MEDIC licence unless they practice medicine as their primary source of income.

What would YOU do if you were the boss of EMS?
 

CollegeBoy

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If I were the boss of EMS, I would allow students to go through the entire educational program and get their medic certificate but need to get their LICENSE in increments. So, you go to medic school, get certified and then hit the road as basic for a predetermined about of hours/calls, step to intermediate and do the same there and then become a practicing medic.

If I were the boss of EMS I would not allow someone to maintain their MEDIC licence unless they practice medicine as their primary source of income.

What would YOU do if you were the boss of EMS?


So the problem that I see here is that most people are gonna forget their advanced skills before they get to the medic level.

As for not allowing someone to be a medic unless they do it full time, I don't know about you, but where I am from there is a severe medic shortage.
 

Leafmealone

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If I were the boss of EMS I would not allow someone to maintain their MEDIC licence unless they practice medicine as their primary source of income.

I kind of understand where you are coming from, but I must disagree. around where I live, we have about 6 major volunteer corps, and they only have a few paid crew supplementing their runs. That would put a lot more strain on the career crews, who are already spread thinner than they would like some days.
 

mgr22

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If I were the boss of EMS, I would allow students to go through the entire educational program and get their medic certificate but need to get their LICENSE in increments. So, you go to medic school, get certified and then hit the road as basic for a predetermined about of hours/calls, step to intermediate and do the same there and then become a practicing medic.

If I were the boss of EMS I would not allow someone to maintain their MEDIC licence unless they practice medicine as their primary source of income.

What would YOU do if you were the boss of EMS?

Does that mean I should lose my medic license if I earn more from a non-EMS source of income for, say, a week? A month? A year?
 
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mcdonl

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My concern with the volunteer medic is the risk. As a basic or an intermediate, sure... you could kill someone by failure to do something but so could a lay person.... A MEDIC can kill someone with their actions. And, if you only practice once or twice a month it is risky.

But, thats why I am not the boss of EMS.
 
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mcdonl

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Does that mean I should lose my medic license if I earn more from a non-EMS source of income for, say, a week? A month? A year?

Ok, maybe primary source of income is a bad measure... perhaps there should be a minimum number of calls/hours/shifts a year to go along with the training.
 

mgr22

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Ok, maybe primary source of income is a bad measure... perhaps there should be a minimum number of calls/hours/shifts a year to go along with the training.

Perhaps. I think it would be very hard to come up with a formula for that, though. What if we focused on results instead of experience? I know of at least one way to do that.
 

medichopeful

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If I were the boss of EMS, I'd drastically increase the educational requirements to get your EMT-B.
 

Chief Complaint

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If I were the boss of EMS, I would allow students to go through the entire educational program and get their medic certificate but need to get their LICENSE in increments. So, you go to medic school, get certified and then hit the road as basic for a predetermined about of hours/calls, step to intermediate and do the same there and then become a practicing medic.

If I were the boss of EMS I would not allow someone to maintain their MEDIC licence unless they practice medicine as their primary source of income.

What would YOU do if you were the boss of EMS?

That is how my volunteer agency works. I am a medic but I first have to run calls as a Basic and Enhanced before running as a Medic.
 

fortsmithman

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I'd change the education requirements. As I have posted in previous threads I'd require that EMT have between 2yrs or 4 years education and paramedic requiring at least 2 years more education than EMT for a total or 4 to 6 years education. As for the OP's idea of banning people who do nbot derive most of their income from medical such as fire medics and volly's (that statement alone may get this thread locked if it turns into another paid vs volly thread so let's keep this thread civil). I\ve seen some paid EMS who were highly professional and I've seen some paid crews who were not behaving in a professional manner. I have seen volly's who are highly trained and professional and I have seen vollys who weren't. It all depends on the personal character and integrity of the individual medic or EMT. I would also have one national registering and licensing body.
 
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mcdonl

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I'd change the education requirements. As I have posted in previous threads I'd require that EMT have between 2yrs or 4 years education and paramedic requiring at least 2 years more education than EMT for a total or 4 to 6 years education. As for the OP's idea of banning people who do nbot derive most of their income from medical such as fire medics and volly's (that statement alone may get this thread locked if it turns into another paid vs volly thread so let's keep this thread civil). I\ve seen some paid EMS who were highly professional and I've seen some paid crews who were not behaving in a professional manner. I have seen volly's who are highly trained and professional and I have seen vollys who weren't. It all depends on the personal character and integrity of the individual medic or EMT. I would also have one national registering and licensing body.

Just to be clear. I was only stating that to be a licensed medic you would need to be in the patient care business.... Er tech, fire/ems, nursing, etc....
 

CheifBud

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I'm sorry but as an EMT-B and based on what I am allowed to even perform I would need to make a hell of a lot more to even justify EMT-B classes for two to four years. That being said why would you go to school for 6 years to be a Medic when you can tack another year and half to two years of schooling on it and become, I don't know, a doctor and make 10000X as much, be able to do 10000x as much and drop the M.D. bomb to catch hot tail. Not to mention with tuition cost these days being so incredibly low why not force those already in need of money (hence them going to school for a job) to spend 4-6 times as much money on schooling when frankly I feel like I learned soooo much more than I am even allowed to perform or required to know in my short amount of schooling for EMT-B.

Now... If we are also talking about expanding the scope of practice accordingly with the amount of schooling and pay scale then forget everything I just said.... but I don't need 4 years of school to work an AED or to be able to count 30 compression and then ventilate.
 

RocketMedic

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The trends towards higher education levels are rediculous. Should EMS as an industry expand its educational requirements? Yes, but do we need two years of schooling to perform current BLS? Not at all. 500 hours of school is plenty to teach the basics.

For advanced providers, there does need to be more education, probably equivalent to an Associates. However, the nature of education needs to be considered. Does a paramedic really need to sit through art and psychology to do our jobs as they stand? Of course not.
EMS needs two things to professionalize: a set definition of our roles with advanced Scopes of practice that allow us to make critical decisions and a standardized education system that emphasizes hands-on and practical learning over tangentially associated topics.

Every suggestion in this thread to date serves to raise the barrier to an EMS career t an unreasonable level that would only result in a massive shortage of wholly qualified personnel. Why would a student give 4 to 6 years for a job that pays far less than other batchelors required careers for a job that you can learn in a year and learn most of the same interventions we do in the field already.

EMS is pretty easy to learn if you're smart and motivated. It takes a very long time to master.
 

adamjh3

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If I were the boss of EMS, I'd drastically increase the educational requirements to get your EMT-B.

Wait... there's education requirements for your Basic?

...oops


I would go as far as having IFT be a completely separate education standard, at least at the basic level.

I've used maybe 10% of what I learned in EMT class on the job. The rest I picked up here, through co-workers, and on my own. There was so much emphasis on trauma and that makes up maybe 2% of my calls, none of them severe, most of them are already stabilized. Out of EMT school, I knew nothing about psych and next to nothing about dialysis patients and geriatrics when that makes up the other 98% of my call volume.

I heard this mentioned on here somewhere, what about going to an apprenticeship kind of "education" at least for the BLS side of things? That's pretty much what it is now, anyway. There's a very minimal baseline learned in the classroom, the majority of a new EMTs learning occurs in the field. I still get calls at least once a day from the newer guys at my station (who have all been working for about 3 months now) with questions.
 

CheifBud

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For advanced providers, there does need to be more education, probably equivalent to an Associates. .

Is there any way of getting an associates just for EMS or Paramedic? I don't know of any but I would be more than happy too if there was.
 

HotelCo

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Is there any way of getting an associates just for EMS or Paramedic? I don't know of any but I would be more than happy too if there was.

Unless you're going to get a pay raise for it, why bother? If you're set on learning more, pick up some books, but don't waste your money on a degree, if you won't get any benefit at work from having it.
 

JPINFV

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I'm sorry but as an EMT-B and based on what I am allowed to even perform I would need to make a hell of a lot more to even justify EMT-B classes for two to four years.

...

Now... If we are also talking about expanding the scope of practice accordingly with the amount of schooling and pay scale then forget everything I just said.... but I don't need 4 years of school to work an AED or to be able to count 30 compression and then ventilate.
Increased education would mean an appropriate increase in the scope of practice for an EMT. As it stands now, an EMT isn't appropriate for much more than a first responder role.
 

JPINFV

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I would go as far as having IFT be a completely separate education standard, at least at the basic level.

I've used maybe 10% of what I learned in EMT class on the job. The rest I picked up here, through co-workers, and on my own. There was so much emphasis on trauma and that makes up maybe 2% of my calls, none of them severe, most of them are already stabilized. Out of EMT school, I knew nothing about psych and next to nothing about dialysis patients and geriatrics when that makes up the other 98% of my call volume.

[thisthisthisthisthis.jpg]

EMS and IFT should be separate, not because one is better than the other (however, I'd argue that as an aggregate, interfacility transport is much more important to the health care system than prehospital emergency care), but because they are different jobs which require completely different skills because the status and make up of the patients invovled are totally different. Non-emergent IFT and prehospital emergency care stops being similar once we get past a gurney and a van that can carry said gurney.
 

usalsfyre

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The trends towards higher education levels are rediculous. Should EMS as an industry expand its educational requirements? Yes, but do we need two years of schooling to perform current BLS? Not at all. 500 hours of school is plenty to teach the basics.
Part of expanding education is bringing things that really matter (pain management, 12 lead EKG interpretation, recognition of CHF, CPAP, ect) to the basic level.

For advanced providers, there does need to be more education, probably equivalent to an Associates. However, the nature of education needs to be considered. Does a paramedic really need to sit through art and psychology to do our jobs as they stand? Of course not.
EMS needs two things to professionalize: a set definition of our roles with advanced Scopes of practice that allow us to make critical decisions and a standardized education system that emphasizes hands-on and practical learning over tangentially associated topics.
If you want that "critical decision" making ability you need well rounded people (which we have far too few of in EMS currently). There's a reason physicians sit through "art and psychology". Part of being able to make those decisions is understanding the social, psychological and economic factors driving the patient. Way too many people currently in EMS have no idea about some of the social issues of poverty, and basically equate poor with stupid. It's not so, and understanding that they're may be cultural, ethnic and economic factors at play enhances your care.

Every suggestion in this thread to date serves to raise the barrier to an EMS career t an unreasonable level that would only result in a massive shortage of wholly qualified personnel. Why would a student give 4 to 6 years for a job that pays far less than other batchelors required careers for a job that you can learn in a year and learn most of the same interventions we do in the field already.
Another part of increasing educational requirements means we don't need what we think of as a paramedic on every truck. The folks that have a B.S. in Paramedicine would comprise maybe 10-20% of the workforce. Does it mean not everyone gets to do "cool skills"? Yep, but tough crap, we need to get away from the patch and skills mentality anyway.
 

usalsfyre

You have my stapler
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I heard this mentioned on here somewhere, what about going to an apprenticeship kind of "education" at least for the BLS side of things? That's pretty much what it is now, anyway. There's a very minimal baseline learned in the classroom, the majority of a new EMTs learning occurs in the field. I still get calls at least once a day from the newer guys at my station (who have all been working for about 3 months now) with questions.

What's needed is real clinical requirements. Not 48 hours standing in the corner at an ER and 5 runs on a unit where the crew ignores you. I'd put the minimum at 50-75 runs, with a real preceptor who evaluates you, not just whoever is there that day.
 
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