First Responders exempt from Obamacare

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BillyBonebrake

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A blog-posted change to the ACA, by Treasury Dept on Friday afternoon:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/10/first-responders-exempt-obamacare-calculations/

Not sure what this means but I work for a big agency as a part-timer and the rumors have been flying about the health care law's ramifications.

And what the heck does "nominally compensated" mean?

UPDATE: I found the letter from Treasury Dept. It seems this only applies to volunteer organizations.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/198549760/Treasury-Letter-to-Senator-Warner-on-Emergency-Responders

Worth noting nonetheless. All these make-it-up-as-you-go-along exemptions are banana republic stuff ...
 
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BillyBonebrake said:
A blog-posted change to the ACA, by Treasury Dept on Friday afternoon:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/10/first-responders-exempt-obamacare-calculations/

Not sure what this means but I work for a big agency as a part-timer and the rumors have been flying about the health care law's ramifications.

And what the heck does "nominally compensated" mean?

UPDATE: I found the letter from Treasury Dept. It seems this only applies to volunteer organizations.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/198549760/Treasury-Letter-to-Senator-Warner-on-Emergency-Responders

Worth noting nonetheless. All these make-it-up-as-you-go-along exemptions are banana republic stuff ...
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It means that a volunteer squad who pays, for example, $15 for responding a call, and has 50 volunteer members, the squad will not be mandated to provide insurance.
 
Volly departments were clamoring for this because Volunteers are counted as employees and would be mandated to provide insurance for that the departments can't afford.
 
I can't stand being forced to pay for health insurance. These are hard times and this just adds more expenses. It would be great if first responders were exempt. When I'm ready I want to buy my health insurance on my own time.
 
dalmain said:
I can't stand being forced to pay for health insurance. These are hard times and this just adds more expenses. It would be great if first responders were exempt. When I'm ready I want to buy my health insurance on my own time.
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When you don't have health insurance a single ER visit and routine procedure can bankrupt a person. More commonly, uninsured people are unable to pay the bill, leading to increased service costs for all Americans.

It's the same reason I have car, homeowners, and professional liability insurance. I've probably spend $1000+ a year on insurance I don't use. When I do need it, it's there.

This update is a savior for volunteer departments that thought they would be forced to provide health insurance for their volunteers.
 
dalmain said:
I can't stand being forced to pay for health insurance. These are hard times and this just adds more expenses. It would be great if first responders were exempt. When I'm ready I want to buy my health insurance on my own time.
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That's everyone's attitude sadly...I'll get it later. In the meantime if something does happen and you can't pay, where do you think those costs go? They don't just disappear.
 
Tigger said:
That's everyone's attitude sadly...I'll get it later. In the meantime if something does happen and you can't pay, where do you think those costs go? They don't just disappear.
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Why NOT wait until you get sick or injured to buy health insurance, now that insurers can't deny you for pre-existing conditions?
 
How is this "banana republic"? (Don't they sell shirts?)

BillyBonebrake said:
A blog-posted change to the ACA, by Treasury Dept on Friday afternoon:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/10/first-responders-exempt-obamacare-calculations/

Not sure what this means but I work for a big agency as a part-timer and the rumors have been flying about the health care law's ramifications.

And what the heck does "nominally compensated" mean?

UPDATE: I found the letter from Treasury Dept. It seems this only applies to volunteer organizations.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/198549760/Treasury-Letter-to-Senator-Warner-on-Emergency-Responders

Worth noting nonetheless. All these make-it-up-as-you-go-along exemptions are banana republic stuff ...
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Cutting to the chase:

Neither the local city volunteer fire department nor the American Red Cross has to compute, valuate and report hours performed by non-paid (bona-fide volunteer) workers at tax-exempt and governmental agencies as though they were paid ones. (Last sentence).

This is not made up, this is a considered response by a qualified person in response to a clarifying question raised by people who operate (and maybe profit) by having some or all unpaid workers rather than paying them all.

Anytime you are a volunteer and working for no compensation, unless the entity you are working for has contracted to give you any benefits, don't expect to GET any benefits.
 
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CFal said:
the fatal flaw of obama care
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Can't understand where that came from. Same for any time in recent history. Unless we are forced to pay before we need it, no one one wants to pay for insurance. We want to pay one month and use it the next, then cancel when we feel fine. Like eating dessert but not your vegetables.

THAT means nothing BUT totally tax subsidized health insurance since you've destroyed the profit and the throughput of money from when we are healthy and pay for others, to when we are not healthy and we depend upon them to pay for us.

Damn, people, water runs downhill but it has to each bottom sometime despite what people wanting your vote promise.

Once again…you believe in everyone paying their way? Then you decline any help after you get cancer, hit by a drunk driver, your kid is born with a handicap, your parents are in a nursing home.
 
Halothane said:
Why NOT wait until you get sick or injured to buy health insurance, now that insurers can't deny you for pre-existing conditions?
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Well even if they have to give you health insurance it still won't be cheap.
 
As long as the presidents of nonprofit medical corporations make seven or eight figure annual earnings and the price of medicine and medical supplies are sky-high, yeah it's going to be somewhat expensive.

Compare the cost of one month's health insurance to one week in an intensive care ward. Or six hrs sitting in an ED, then being seen, thoroughly diagnosed, then sent packing with a scrip.
 
mycrofft said:
As long as the presidents of nonprofit medical corporations make seven or eight figure annual earnings and the price of medicine and medical supplies are sky-high, yeah it's going to be somewhat expensive.

Compare the cost of one month's health insurance to one week in an intensive care ward. Or six hrs sitting in an ED, then being seen, thoroughly diagnosed, then sent packing with a scrip.
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The problem is that medicine and medical supplies aren't expensive. They reason everything is billed so highly is because Medicare pays pennies on the dollar, and all others follow suit. If they pay 20% of the bill hospitals have to either bill the patient for the rest! or bill Medicare 5 times as high as the actual cost to recoup costs (creating artificial inflation, which is what has happened.) Overall it is a combination of greed and a poor payment system that have created this mess.
 
mycrofft said:
As long as the presidents of nonprofit medical corporations make seven or eight figure annual earnings and the price of medicine and medical supplies are sky-high, yeah it's going to be somewhat expensive.

Compare the cost of one month's health insurance to one week in an intensive care ward. Or six hrs sitting in an ED, then being seen, thoroughly diagnosed, then sent packing with a scrip.
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Healthcare is a massive and very complex industry, and there are many reasons why is costs so much. I don't think the salaries of a handful of executives is a major driver of costs.
 
Wheel said:
The problem is that medicine and medical supplies aren't expensive. They reason everything is billed so highly is because Medicare pays pennies on the dollar, and all others follow suit. If they pay 20% of the bill hospitals have to either bill the patient for the rest! or bill Medicare 5 times as high as the actual cost to recoup costs (creating artificial inflation, which is what has happened.) Overall it is a combination of greed and a poor payment system that have created this mess.
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That's certainly one part of the high cost of healthcare in good ol' 'merica.

What you're talking about actually goes a bit further; insurance companies often do the same thing (only pay part of the bill), and even with the half-assed exchanges that won't likely be changing anytime soon. Get's even better; in some states (and all states as far as medicare is concerned) if an insurance company doesn't pay part of the bill, the hospital legally can't bill the patient for the rest.

Nifty, huh?
 
triemal04 said:
That's certainly one part of the high cost of healthcare in good ol' 'merica.

What you're talking about actually goes a bit further; insurance companies often do the same thing (only pay part of the bill), and even with the half-assed exchanges that won't likely be changing anytime soon. Get's even better; in some states (and all states as far as medicare is concerned) if an insurance company doesn't pay part of the bill, the hospital legally can't bill the patient for the rest.

Nifty, huh?
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Quite. I don't think any kind of reform will deal with the fundamental problems of American healthcare. It really needs a reboot.
 
Halothane said:
Healthcare is a massive and very complex industry, and there are many reasons why is costs so much. I don't think the salaries of a handful of executives is a major driver of costs.
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Add executives for all the major players (biomedical device and research companies, medical software, medical supplies, agents who mediate sales and take a percentage off each stage of buying a medical widget, building and landscaping upkeep of facilities, insurance, wages for personnel, plus overhead of treating non-paying patients, and you get a taste. Plus legal expenses, which are fees set by parties who have the utmost incentive to make legal actions last as long as they can to boot pay or solidify position (and boost pay).
 
Overall if you are a healthy individual require minor care or maybe once a year physicals there's a lower cost insurance available to you. Similar to if you have a good driving record and years of experience behind the wheel of a motor vehicle your automobile rates are less expensive than others. there's a reason why we call it insurance. its there if you need it.

The idea behind the first responders being exempt from the Obamacare requirements is that if I am volunteering my time for no compensation why should the organization be required to provide me with health insurance?

Medicare sets the standard for what is compensated for medical procedures and services. I know my last hospital visit when I broke my leg and the follow up appointments with the ortho I would get a summary of benefits from Blue Cross, which stated what they were charged, what they paid and the difference. For the most part insurance companies and healthcare providers usually bargain where lets say the total charge was a thousand dollars insurance pays 80% ($800) and the provider agrees to accept that as payment in full for services rendered. of course you probably paid your copay at the visit I know mine was 15 bucks since he was a specialist.
 
Halothane said:
Why NOT wait until you get sick or injured to buy health insurance, now that insurers can't deny you for pre-existing conditions?
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That's why we have the opt-out fee. It encourages people to buy now instead of just when they need it.

Or at least that's what theyre telling me.
 
unleashedfury said:
Overall if you are a healthy individual require minor care or maybe once a year physicals there's a lower cost insurance available to you. Similar to if you have a good driving record and years of experience behind the wheel of a motor vehicle your automobile rates are less expensive than others. there's a reason why we call it insurance. its there if you need it.

The idea behind the first responders being exempt from the Obamacare requirements is that if I am volunteering my time for no compensation why should the organization be required to provide me with health insurance?

Medicare sets the standard for what is compensated for medical procedures and services. I know my last hospital visit when I broke my leg and the follow up appointments with the ortho I would get a summary of benefits from Blue Cross, which stated what they were charged, what they paid and the difference. For the most part insurance companies and healthcare providers usually bargain where lets say the total charge was a thousand dollars insurance pays 80% ($800) and the provider agrees to accept that as payment in full for services rendered. of course you probably paid your copay at the visit I know mine was 15 bucks since he was a specialist.
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Yes. Better than I put it. (Often).
 
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