I've Been Served!!!!

[medicRob]

Actually most mainstream Muslim sects tend to view "necessary exposure" in the course of medical treatment as an exception to this rule.

Really? I didn't know that. The individuals filing this lawsuit must be rather conservative then.

 

[usafmedic45]

Yeah, I was told that by an imam when I went to inquire out of my own curiosity a few years back.

 

[nwhitney]

Actually, cultural and religious beliefs play a big role in our delivery of health care. For instance, Jehovah's Witnesses will not accept blood or blood products.

Jehovah's Witnesses can accept SOME blood products. I only know since I grew up as one. They might even be a little easier to ID since often in their wallet they carry a "Blood Card" stating not to give them a blood transfusion, not that we would be searching for that while they bleed out.

To the OP I would second the advice of others and not talk about this on here. Best of luck to you, I would hate to see this end your career. I'll be sending good vibes your way.

 

[usafmedic45]

Also, they can't refuse a transfusion for their child in some states. And a study by Findley and Redstone showed that something like 10-12% of Witnesses are willing to accept transfusions.

 

[medicRob]

Also, they can't refuse a transfusion for their child in some states. And a study by Findley and Redstone showed that something like 10-12% of Witnesses are willing to accept transfusions.

Do they have the two doc or court order policy in your area? The signature of 2 docs can override (usually attendings) when it involves life saving procedures, and of course court order is self explanatory.

 

[abckidsmom]

Do they have the two doc or court order policy in your area? The signature of 2 docs can override (usually attendings) when it involves life saving procedures, and of course court order is self explanatory.

Can they override the decisions made by an adult, prior to the injury? I watched a person die of a very simple problem, definitely wouldn't have happened with transfusions. It was hard, and yet the family was accepting of the decision too, and was glad the staff respected their opinions.

ETA: Well, followed their directions, anyway.

 

[medicRob]

Can they override the decisions made by an adult, prior to the injury? I watched a person die of a very simple problem, definitely wouldn't have happened with transfusions. It was hard, and yet the family was accepting of the decision too, and was glad the staff respected their opinions.

ETA: Well, followed their directions, anyway.

Only if it is a DIRECT life-saving intervention for an acute issue that isn't afforded the necessity of the time it would take to get a court order.

 

[clibb]

There's no way you could had automatically known her religious beliefs. If she wasn't alert during the process and if it was to control bleeding, I think you can prove enough in court to let you off the hook.

 

[rmabrey]

This is the problem. Even though she was unconscious, her attorney claims her religion is common knowledge because of the vast media reports on the subject. He claims that because of this, if her status would have been un-altered she would have denied consent therefore the implied consent rule would not apply.

So her attorney advocates stereotyping?

 

[dixie_flatline]

She wasn't wearing a niqāb or a burqa was she?

As an aside, all the Witnesses I've ever treated actually had medalert tags on that stated "No blood products". (All 2 of them)

 

[firecoins]

We can do a Nazi Germany trick where every Jew wears a gold star and every Muslim wears a crescent and so on and so fourth. <_<<_<<_<:glare::glare:

Or maybe thats just a horrible idea and we should just remove the lawyer's license to practise. I like that much better.

 

[exodus]

She wasn't wearing a niqāb or a burqa was she?

As an aside, all the Witnesses I've ever treated actually had medalert tags on that stated "No blood products". (All 2 of them)

Even if she was, it wouldn't matter. I've seen little old ladies wear them because it's hot out and they don't want to burn.

 

[Symbolic]

Yeah, seriously.. what happened to implied consent. I don't see this case making any progress. This is incredibly comical and a sad day for humanity.

 

[mycrofft]

Loss of consciousness and need equal implied consent, no?

Families will do stuff out of upset or financial impact or underlying cultural issues. I can imagine what their medical bills look like.

Lawyer up. County may throw you off the sled.

 

[Sasha]

If you hadn't exposed her and missed some bleeding they'd have sued you for any morbidity or death to the patient.

 

[mycrofft]

Some days it doesn't pay to turn on the siren.

What am I saying?!h34r:

 

[WTEngel]

Wow, what an interesting case.

First, having worked in a predominantly Muslim country for a year, I worked many a trauma where we respectfully exposed the female patient, did our assessment, and then covered her back (which I am sure is exactly what you did.) Never had an issue. In fact, being culturally sensitive as were were, we would always ask the eldest male relative or her husband out of respect, and not once did they refuse. They were relieved to see us, and wanted the life of their family member saved.

So yes, whoever pointed out that there is typically an exception made for necessary medical procedures is correct.

It sounds to me like this divorce may have been imminent anyway, and now there appears to be a way to make some money. I could be totally wrong, but it makes more sense than a completely loving husband being so repulsed by the fact that his wife's life was saved, however since she was exposed, he will have nothing to do with her. Long story short, in either case, she is better off without him, I know many Muslim men who are very respectful and caring of their spouses, but that is beside the point.

As for knowing her religion because of the media blitz about Muslim culture, the county attorney should have a field day defending that. In fact I bet the county attorney if foaming at the mouth to attack this case, as it has so many ludicrous and outrageous aspects it just seems to easy, you know?

Also, as far as the Jehovah's Witness' are concerned, we run quite a few neonatal transfers that require blood products for these patients. What I found interesting (I never knew this) was that the church, at least the ones we dealt with, had a process to contact the physician and hospital's legal department in order to ASSIST in getting a court order for the blood to be administered. So in essence, they refused to adhere to their religious beliefs, and then informed the physician and hospital how to get around it to administer the patient blood products.

 

[the_negro_puppy]

What an absolute joke. Best of luck with the lawsuit. I assume even if the case is thrown out you'll be out of pocket quite a bit for lawyer fees. Counter-sue the patient.

 

[mycrofft]

There is a thread idea...culturally sensitve EMS!

Actually, you could probably sell a training course about it.

Besides EMS members who are of cultures besides the American stereotypical Western European/Anglo model, EMS has scores of people who have worked overseas with aid agencies, military, and as contractors. EMS as a whole is possibly, potentially getting more sensitive every day.

I missed the divorce facet. Yeah, cajun's probably safe to ride another day, plaintiff may be trying to recoup costs, but playing the race card is their mistake.

 

[EMSrush]

First of all.. How would you know a person beliefs.. You would be profiling if every middle eastern person was assumed to believe in Islam.

My sentiments exactly.

Seems like you just can't win sometimes...