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Do the H2's really help at all? My understanding is they do not. I give them (along with H1's and steroids) pre-emptively at times, but when I do, it unfortunately it has as much to do with legal indications as clinical ones.
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Do the H2's really help at all? My understanding is they do not. I give them (along with H1's and steroids) pre-emptively at times, but when I do, it unfortunately it has as much to do with legal indications as clinical ones.
There is some clinical evidence indicating a benefit to using both h1 and h2 blockers for symptomatic treatment of anaphylaxis. Read the paper a while ago, can dig it up if you would like?
First off I’m not a EMT in anyway. So a lot of the terminology mentioned is over my head .What about dosing in this situation? Presumably we want to go higher than the standard dosage which is aimed more at hay fever and whatnot? Antihistamines have a pretty wide therapeutic index, I think... Depending on how deathly allergic he is, maybe have him take 5x the recommended dose on the package?
If all we have is PO, does it make sense to have him chew the tablets up for faster absorption?
We don’t give medical advice on this forum.First off I’m not a EMT in anyway. So a lot of the terminology mentioned is over my head .
Secondly
You guys can kick me off after this comment I’ll still be able to read the answer.
My grandson is allergic to bee venom so I’ve looked into this quite a bit.
Under the same circumstances as in the op “you’re 6 miles deep in the woods with no EpiPen and only Benadryl “.
From what I’ve read one of the main problems with Benadryl is that it takes to long to enter the bloodstream.
Absorption is very fast in the nasal passages . So the neophyte in me ask’s. Would administration that way be a good idea? If the airway is restricted it could be blown up their nose with a straw, hollow pen casing or something similar.
Thanks in advance
Worried grandpa
First off I’m not a EMT in anyway. So a lot of the terminology mentioned is over my head .
Secondly
You guys can kick me off after this comment I’ll still be able to read the answer.
My grandson is allergic to bee venom so I’ve looked into this quite a bit.
Under the same circumstances as in the op “you’re 6 miles deep in the woods with no EpiPen and only Benadryl “.
From what I’ve read one of the main problems with Benadryl is that it takes to long to enter the bloodstream.
Absorption is very fast in the nasal passages . So the neophyte in me ask’s. Would administration that way be a good idea? If the airway is restricted it could be blown up their nose with a straw, hollow pen casing or something similar.
Thanks in advance
Worried grandpa
Although histamine is involved in anaphylaxis, treatment with antihistamines does not relieve or prevent all of the pathophysiological symptoms of anaphylaxis, including the more serious complications such as airway obstruction, hypotension, and shock.
As was said, we don't give medical advice here.First off I’m not a EMT in anyway. So a lot of the terminology mentioned is over my head .
Secondly
You guys can kick me off after this comment I’ll still be able to read the answer.
My grandson is allergic to bee venom so I’ve looked into this quite a bit.
Under the same circumstances as in the op “you’re 6 miles deep in the woods with no EpiPen and only Benadryl “.
From what I’ve read one of the main problems with Benadryl is that it takes to long to enter the bloodstream.
Absorption is very fast in the nasal passages . So the neophyte in me ask’s. Would administration that way be a good idea? If the airway is restricted it could be blown up their nose with a straw, hollow pen casing or something similar.
Thanks in advance
Worried grandpa
Thank you sirReally this is a conversation that should be had with your grandson's physician / his parents. If he is at risk of having an anaphylactic reaction from a bee sting, he probably should have an EpiPen with him if he's going into the woods (or an adult should be carrying one).
If the airway is constricted or the person's blood pressure is dropping, Benadryl is unlikely to solve those problems even if you could have it be absorbed immediately.
For example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25141245
the symptoms you are describing are a classic anaphylactic reaction.I found myself alone at home having throuble breathing, lips swelling, heart pounding in my chest, a few other odd sensations, blurred vision etc...then as I get in the house Everything started to fade out and back in again....not good....
well, considering you can die from an anapylactic reaction, calling 911 is likey appropriate.A few minutes later, back in the living room sitting down .... (Quick history, raised to never ever call 911 unless someone was going to die. "Your redirecting emergency sevices from someone else who might truly need it" was the standard saying ....grew up in very rural areas where help was limited over huge expanses ...)
and lets say you passed out behind the wheel.... or the symptoms returned and your throat started to swell up.... or your vision got blurry.... are you sure you weren't just lucky, because that could have easily gone another way, especially if you did pass out and causes a head on collision with a soccer mom, killing her and her 5 kids... would you like to tell her husband "but I was certain i could drive, I'm overly responsible!" That's also why we tell people not to follow the ambulance to the hospital, because people do weird stuff when they or their family members are sick. The drive of the ambulance is not as emotionally involved in the situation, and will not be affected by the patient's medical conditionanyway, feeling like I was going to go down and not sure what would happen after that... I called it in ....after a minute or two and a transfer from dispatch and a little Q&A from local I started to feel the world stablize under me and felt bit clearer..heart ,breathing got a bit better ....I canceled the call, (dispatch was nice enough to try talking me out of it) and after a few, feeling fairly stable, I drove to the urgent care down the way....( please no" pass out at the wheel" lectures! I'm an overly responsible person and wouldn't dive unless certain...)
Probably. the reaction you felt was likely a massive histamine reaction; taking an anti-histamine helped to reverse it.So did it help? I'm not sure where the raction rates on the severity scale .. .....and I am still not 100% sure that chewing made the difference , the MD seemed to think so... Followed by...."Its not a replacement for an epi pen though" ...
..The heart pounding and dizzy/faint feeling passed in minutes,breathing soon after, swelling took a bit and dose or two more.... But,It seemed to work.....
And yet... here ya are...I didn't ask for a response or want one
And yet... here ya are...Sorry to be aggressive/ hit and run here...it sucks I know....I'm not interested in a Troll on Troll fight
Please state your healthcare education/licensure, and experience? We know DrP is an experienced fire medic with over a decade of practice. That doesn't make him always right, but what is your basis because you haven't actually pointed out factually errors, much less provided counterclaims, just insinuated that others need to bow to your experience and "research" and "read"?I have a considerable amount of exposure to emergency situations and behaviors that result from stress. Please take a moment and research...
TYFYSInteresting.....it seems you are simply being critical here ...just for the sake of having something to say.....
I didn't ask for a response or want one, I was simply relating an experience that resembled the original question.
A What if ...hiking in the woods ....no epi pen,only Diphenhydramine...
I'm from a very large extended east coast family, several generations, fire, police and medicine. I know the lay of the land.Hell, some of them were the true blue old guard, I mean the real deal, the men that the nubes would here stories about and eveyone would stand up straight and tall when they walked into a station.
I have a considerable amount of exposure to emergency situations and behaviors that result from stress. And personally, I have been under intense combative situations and been pushed to my extremes.I have an very clear idea of my physical limitations and capabilities...I have had the conversation you are talking about given to me and provided it on anothers behalf ...if you ever have the misfortune to give news of that nature to someone you will never again use that example, its not a toy to play with...
..... Just from your response here you are over confident which is more dangerous than just ignorant, the over confident guy or gal is most terrifying one to have your back in any situation.
Please take a moment and research... Your not exactly wrong but your a bit off on accuracy..... PLEASE DO NOT GOOGLE IT! Just a few seconds with a Merck manual...The Information may be critical at some point (sorry but you put Dr. In front of your name, even if its just an affectation in an online forum you should be 100% ...perfect in your information)
Sorry to be aggressive/ hit and run here...it sucks I know....I'm not interested in a Troll on Troll fight .... I know you will want to respond....and rightfully so, I threw a couple of stones at you...I'm going to respond or continue the thead...honestly I'm unlikely to even read your response....life is way to short ....
It was just a hypothetical question and I had real time experience that I wanted to relate, because you never know, someone might remember it when it fit their situation .....
you came here, and posted your story..... your experience is not invalid, however there are several things about it that I wanted to point out. Sorry your feelings were hurt.Interesting.....it seems you are simply being critical here ...just for the sake of having something to say.....
I didn't ask for a response or want one, I was simply relating an experience that resembled the original question.
so pop as much Diphenhydramine until you fall asleep, especially if that's all you have.A What if ...hiking in the woods ....no epi pen,only Diphenhydramine...
I'm sure your family is awesome. And if they were with you, they might even be able to give you some sound advice. Even better if one of your family members was an ER physician (which I am not). Heck, my great great great grandfather was in a general in the military, but that doesn't make me an expert in strategist for how to invade France.... Nor should anyone salute me when I walked into a station. but it's not really relevant, but it's cool that you have some awesome family members.I'm from a very large extended east coast family, several generations, fire, police and medicine. I know the lay of the land.Hell, some of them were the true blue old guard, I mean the real deal, the men that the nubes would here stories about and everyone would stand up straight and tall when they walked into a station.
not really relevant, but thank you for your service.I have a considerable amount of exposure to emergency situations and behaviors that result from stress. And personally, I have been under intense combative situations and been pushed to my extremes.I have an very clear idea of my physical limitations and capabilities...I have had the conversation you are talking about given to me and provided it on anothers behalf ...if you ever have the misfortune to give news of that nature to someone you will never again use that example, its not a toy to play with...
Hey, I'm not perfect.... if i'm wrong, feel free to explain why, and cite your source. You have 0 medical training, 0 medical education, and but you have family members in the know.... you'll forgive me if I don't just take your word for it...... Just from your response here you are over confident which is more dangerous than just ignorant, the over confident guy or gal is most terrifying one to have your back in any situation.
Please take a moment and research... Your not exactly wrong but your a bit off on accuracy..... PLEASE DO NOT GOOGLE IT! Just a few seconds with a Merck manual...The Information may be critical at some point (sorry but you put Dr. In front of your name, even if its just an affectation in an online forum you should be 100% ...perfect in your information)
ahhh, so you're just here to be a troll. at least you can admit it. Like I said, it's a slow day, otherwise I would just ignore you.Sorry to be aggressive/ hit and run here...it sucks I know....I'm not interested in a Troll on Troll fight .... I know you will want to respond....and rightfully so, I threw a couple of stones at you...I'm going to respond or continue the thead...honestly I'm unlikely to even read your response....life is way to short ....
It was just a hypothetical question and I had real time experience that I wanted to relate, because you never know, someone might remember it when it fit their situation .....
...turns out medicine isn't practice based on someone's personal experiences..Sorry to be aggressive/ hit and run here...it sucks I know....I'm not interested in a Troll on Troll fight .... I know you will want to respond....and rightfully so, I threw a couple of stones at you...I'm going to respond or continue the thead...honestly I'm unlikely to even read your response....life is way to short ....
It was just a hypothetical question and I had real time experience that I wanted to relate, because you never know, someone might remember it when it fit their situation .....
Definitely IV drip+.maybe challenge a bear to a wrestling match
Wildlife relocation expert outside Yosemite waking up to a playful cougar kitten landing on his chest: Oh look at the naked man doing the 3 minute mile through our campsite.I have a considerable amount of exposure to emergency situations and behaviors that result from stress. And personally, I have been under intense combative situations and been pushed to my extremes.I have an very clear idea of my physical limitations and capabilities..