the 100% directionless thread

[Tigger]

I know what you mean. I don't generally origami foil, but these media people are just as bad. Guns=Satan now, and you're a devil worshiper if you hold onto your evil weapons.

But, don't you worry, they'll take them off your hands and make you safe.

But the second active shooter, shot dead within minutes, by who? None other than evil cops with evil guns.

And let's not forget the bystander who helped protect kids with his evil gun.

>:c

This sort of crap explains much of why there is no meaningful talk on gun issues. There are not only two sides. Perpetuating that just makes discussion harder. Take the high road.

 

[DragonClaw]

Yea, I'm not going to live like that. My pistol is not going to keep me safe from some person with body armor and a rifle intent harming as many people as possible. Even if I had my gun on me, which I would not because I just don't want to carry, I think getting as far away from the threat is the strategy. There is no way I could switch gears mentally from being out shopping to dealing with some sort of threat. It's one thing to be in a tough spot at work, when you're mentally prepared for that. I am not going to be mentally prepared for much when I'm at a bar with my friends. I know this about myself. I keep seeing this whole "if only there was a good guy there with a gun" mantra and I just don't get it. I hope your (I mean this in the plural sense) training will allow you to find cover, avoid shooting one of the dozens of panicking people nearby, and keep you from getting shot yourself, either by the perpetrator or law enforcement. If it does great, but I think we should all remember that this sort of training is a huge commitment and proficiency is challenging even for law enforcement, who at least have the benefit of going to work everyday with a prepared mindset.

I also respect that there are many reasons to carry a gun. I do not intend to dissuade anyone from doing so. I am not some bleeding heart that hates guns. I just hope pragmatism will prevail.

I don't disagree completely. Even against LAP, your cover may completely shot.

Me having a pistol or two isn't going to shield me against guy in a hotel room with a million rounds of ammo

You get out of the kill box asap, taking others with you.

Sometimes winning means not dying, rather than to be the one to kill.

But, doesn't mean I won't return fire if given the shot, afteral, why do I carry?

 

[Jim37F]

Tactical situation dictates.... if the shooter shoots you in the back as opening shots, or if they're advancing towards you with only open ground, or their in that hotel room or other cover themselves where anything short of a .50 or an AT4 isn't gonna do anything, getting off that X is the best choice... Or you find yourself with a clean line of sight 50m away with their back turned to you because urban environments are 360° affairs...
It's far from guaranteed BUT at least you wont be completely helpless cowering somewhere thinking "I wish I had my gun to shoot back".
Statistically most shooters off themselves vs getting into a gunfight with cops, who knows, a couple rounds may cause them to flee and decide it's over...

 

[Seirende]

Persons with guns are far more likely to use their firearm for suicide than they are to defend themselves against an armed assailant successfully...

 

[DragonClaw]

Persons with guns are far more likely to use their firearm for suicide than they are to defend themselves against an armed assailant successfully...

So take everyone's guns regardless of their suicidal intent, you know, for safety?

I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[GMCmedic]

I don't carry a gun to be a hero. With some exceptions (felon, the state you live in) everyone has an opportunity to make the conscious decision to protect themselves. I carry a gun to protect my family, everyone else is SOL unless Im forced to use said gun. Then they may benefit out of necessity.

As far as meaningful talk, Im willing to have it, the second someone mentions banning, Im out of the discussion.

 

[DragonClaw]

I don't carry a gun to be a hero. With some exceptions (felon, the state you live in) everyone has an opportunity to make the conscious decision to protect themselves. I carry a gun to protect my family, everyone else is SOL unless Im forced to use said gun. Then they may benefit out of necessity.

As far as meaningful talk, Im willing to have it, the second someone mentions banning, Im out of the discussion.

If they think a ban will work, they're beyond reason until they figure out things like the failure of gun free zones and such.

I don't know if I could sleep if I just left everyone else to the wolves. Yes, protect me and mine first, but then go back for anyone else who still needs help.

If I'm going for a snack and find a robbery and I'm not noticed, I can't just leave. Yeah, call 911 and give info, but you've got the tactical advantage of surprise. I can't just hope they don't get blown away by a twitchy tweaker or whatever.

 

[GMCmedic]

If they think a ban will work, they're beyond reason until they figure out things like the failure of gun free zones and such.

I don't know if I could sleep if I just left everyone else to the wolves. Yes, protect me and mine first, but then go back for anyone else who still needs help.

If I'm going for a snack and find a robbery and I'm not noticed, I can't just leave. Yeah, call 911 and give info, but you've got the tactical advantage of surprise. I can't just hope they don't get blown away by a twitchy tweaker or whatever.

I get it, I was young and single once. Now I have a wife and kids.

I have a responsibilty to protect and be there for them and noone else. I only care that my kids remember me as a good dad that was around, not as a good dad that did something brave but is now gone.

 

[Tigger]

If they think a ban will work, they're beyond reason until they figure out things like the failure of gun free zones and such.

I don't know if I could sleep if I just left everyone else to the wolves. Yes, protect me and mine first, but then go back for anyone else who still needs help.

If I'm going for a snack and find a robbery and I'm not noticed, I can't just leave. Yeah, call 911 and give info, but you've got the tactical advantage of surprise. I can't just hope they don't get blown away by a twitchy tweaker or whatever.

Dead heroes are still dead. Your family/friends/those you care about would rather you be alive and have not acted, than dead.

 

[DragonClaw]

Hmm, haven't given that much though, as you can tell. I'm no parent, don't even have a SO, but even so. I would be hard pressed to leave someone to possibly die like that.

 

[Seirende]

So take everyone's guns regardless of their suicidal intent, you know, for safety?

I'm not sure what your point is.

My point is that we shouldn't act like guns are a beneficial or even benign possession. They do more harm than good.

 

[DragonClaw]

My point is that we shouldn't act like guns are a beneficial or even benign possession. They do more harm than good.

When I finish laughing, maybe I can get off the floor.

 

[Tigger]

We can be civil and talk about this, or not at all. Those are the only two options.

 

[DragonClaw]

We can be civil and talk about this, or not at all. Those are the only two options.

Yes sir, sorry. (I think you're a sir. Or ma'am if it suits you)

You say they're not beneficial or benign. I would disagree with the fact that it gives me some chance to defend myself against an assailant or multiple ones. Especially if they're also armed.

Taking a sheepdogs teeth doesn't get rid of the wolves.

There's a few times I thought I may need a gun and I'm glad one is by my side. I never had to draw, but if I do, I know I can.

Also. I've literally fed myself by using one. I consider eating beneficial.

Okay. So, the deer didn't benefit, I'll give you that.

Also, on average, conceal carriers stop incidents faster than police and with less casualties. The element of surprise can do wonders. I'm not ragging on police, but average police response time in LA is like 45 minutes. If I lived there, I'd be at the mercy of my attacker. I'd rather not be.

 

[Peak]

Yea, I'm not going to live like that. My pistol is not going to keep me safe from some person with body armor and a rifle intent harming as many people as possible. Even if I had my gun on me, which I would not because I just don't want to carry, I think getting as far away from the threat is the strategy. There is no way I could switch gears mentally from being out shopping to dealing with some sort of threat. It's one thing to be in a tough spot at work, when you're mentally prepared for that. I am not going to be mentally prepared for much when I'm at a bar with my friends. I know this about myself. I keep seeing this whole "if only there was a good guy there with a gun" mantra and I just don't get it. I hope your (I mean this in the plural sense) training will allow you to find cover, avoid shooting one of the dozens of panicking people nearby, and keep you from getting shot yourself, either by the perpetrator or law enforcement. If it does great, but I think we should all remember that this sort of training is a huge commitment and proficiency is challenging even for law enforcement, who at least have the benefit of going to work everyday with a prepared mindset.

I also respect that there are many reasons to carry a gun. I do not intend to dissuade anyone from doing so. I am not some bleeding heart that hates guns. I just hope pragmatism will prevail.

I don't view it as some thing where one person with a gun is going to be the hero and stop the bad guy. I do think that these shooters may be more hesitant if they knew that there is a good chance that several people have a concealed carry where ever there is a large crowd, and their rampage is ended early.

The unfortunate reality is that there are plenty of ways to enact a CBRNe threat that are far more lethal or terroristic than being a mass shooter. Even if we somehow removed every gun from the United States it doesn't remove the ability for a person to kill hundreds or thousands of people.

There are many rampage killers and terrorist events in countries with strict gun legislation in Europe and Asia.

Statistics shown in the media rarely reflect the reality. One of my greatest annoyances is when the AAP talks about how many children die from firearms, their statistics include 18 and 19 year olds (which also are the great majority of the dealths) and almost all of which are either while committing a crime or while participating in gang activity.

We are at a point where these delusional losers think that by killing bunch of people they are going to be famous, get their 'revenge', further their political ideals, or some other insane motivation. Banning guns does almost nothing to address the problem. There are plenty of other lethal means, and those psychotic/delusional/APD/other brand of the crazy are still running around unchecked. Thank Ronald Regan for destroying the mental healthcare system in the US.

 

[VentMonkey]

Mass hysteria and fear mongers be damned. Still had a helluva a time on our pregame tour that segued into one of Walker Buehler’s CG gems.

Kiddos had a blast also.

 

[KingCountyMedic]

I'm more fearful of the CCW weekend warriors than I am of the mass shooters.

 

[DrParasite]

Why? how many homicides are committed by CCW holders? how many unjustified shootings? are your fears justified, or simply a product of your misinformation?

 

[KingCountyMedic]

Why? how many homicides are committed by CCW holders? how many unjustified shootings? are your fears justified, or simply a product of your misinformation?

30 years of "accidental discharge" calls. "The gun went off while I was cleaning it." That sort of thing. Thanks for asking.

 

[VentMonkey]

Can we slide the gun talk back over to the gun thread?