Role of EMTs in Ohio executions criticized

[VentMedic]

Role of EMTs in Ohio executions criticized
By Suzanne Hoholik
The Columbus Dispatch

http://www.ems1.com/ems-products/me...99-Role-of-EMTs-in-Ohio-executions-criticized

COLUMBUS, Ohio — When the state carries out a death sentence, intermediate-level emergency medical technicians deliver the fatal drugs to condemned prisoners.

But a Columbus surgeon and longtime opponent of capital punishment contends that these technicians are not allowed to administer the drugs.

The procedure state officials follow during executions states that the lethal drugs should be given by a "person qualified under Ohio law to administer medications."

But under state law, intermediate EMTs are not authorized to work with these drugs.

"The EMTs are not trained to give these drugs and, in my opinion, there's no assurance they can do it properly," said Dr. Jonathan Groner, trauma medical director at Nationwide Children's Hospital.

"These drugs are way out of their scope, and there is risk of pain and suffering."

 

[reaper]

I am appalled. They are not trained in giving these drugs, They may give to much and overdose them!

This guy will win his case, because of how the law is written. I personally do not see a problem with it.

Other states have used Paramedics for the procedure. This was because of Nurses and Dr's taking an oath to do no harm. Paramedics do not take this oath, so there is no conflict in it.

 

[JPINFV]

I highly doubt that the concern is an overdose.


As to the poll question, provided that there is an approved dosing protocol, I see no problem with it. If we, as a county, approve the death penalty then we, as health care providers, have an obligation to insure that the execution is properly carried out when it involves pharmaceuticals. Any health care provider who refuses to assist in executions on the grounds of "Do no harm" but approves of the death penalty is a hypocrite. Of course if society wants to return to the firing squad or short drop hangings, then so be it as well.

 

[Ridryder911]

There are states that utilize Paramedics to perform State sanctioned executions, whiich itself is controversial... If they are going to allow EMT/I's they might as well just have a non-licensed or certified person..

R/r911

 

[Sasha]

"These drugs are way out of their scope, and there is risk of pain and suffering."

I highly doubt that pain and suffering was a concern when these people commited their crimes, why do they deserve the mercy of a painless merciful death unless they granted their victim the same?

 

[JPINFV]

why do they deserve the mercy of a painless merciful death unless they granted their victim the same?

...because the founders of the constitution included the 8th amendment.

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

 

[Aidey]

Sasha, the problem goes beyond pain and suffering too. If the execution is botched, and the guy doesn't die, but is disabled, not only does the state have to care for him and pay his medical bills, they can no longer execute him (possibly).

I think if they are going to use EMTs, then they need to be using Paramedics so that the people administering the drugs know how the drugs work and how to dose them properly.

 

[Sasha]

...because the founders of the constitution included the 8th amendment.

Doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

I'm hard pressed to be concerned if those on death row experience a little discomfort in their execution. I know that makes me hypocritical.

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

There are states that utilize Paramedics to perform State sanctioned executions, whiich itself is controversial... If they are going to allow EMT/I's they might as well just have a non-licensed or certified person..

R/r911

Is there something in the EMTP scope of practice or training that makes them more qualified to kill someone than an EMTI? I work as a Vet Tech for 6 years and euthed hundreads of sick and dying cats a dogs, and let me tell you, it don't take a degree to put in a cath and inject that stuff. Hell I would rather wuth a hundread prisoners than just one sick kitten.

"The EMTs are not trained to give these drugs and, in my opinion, there's no assurance they can do it properly," said Dr. Jonathan Groner, trauma medical director at Nationwide Children's Hospital.

"These drugs are way out of their scope, and there is risk of pain and suffering."

So what? If you fail to give it wrong what's the worse that could happen? You kill them! Oops. Or that you don’t kill them right away? If at first you do not succeed, try, try again! Pain and suffering? For the record, I am pro death penalty and not because I enjoy death or suffering, but because I believe the punishment need to fit the crime. Call it the redneck in me, but I believe that if you destroy one life, we should be able to destroy yours. In my perfect world there are only three crimes that deserve the death penalty:

Murder. Duh. You kill them, we kill you.
Rape or other Sexual Assault. That is a defense again the future victims. I HATE rapists and molesters and don't see how rehabilitation is gonna matter.
Drug Dealers. In my mind, one person dealing drugs for one hour destroys more lives (by cause and effect) than 10 serial killers.

So, personally, I don’t think you need a medical license to dole out a judgment passed in a court of law. Yes, I know the liberal reply is always "you could be killing an innocent man", but (leaving out my personal pro death penalty views) once a sentence is passed, I don not care if the murderer/rapist/whatever is in a little pain and suffers a little. If a MFR gives the drugs and screws up, so what. I understand the legal argument against someone giving a drug that is not in their scope, but it doesn’t take a medical degree to push fatal drugs.

 

[AnthonyM83]

It's either in their scope of practice or it's not.
If it's not, they should be fully liable for going out of scope.

 

[Sasha]

Murder. Duh. You kill them, we kill you.
Rape or other Sexual Assault. That is a defense again the future victims. I HATE rapists and molesters and don't see how rehabilitation is gonna matter.
Drug Dealers. In my mind, one person dealing drugs for one hour destroys more lives (by cause and effect) than 10 serial killers.

Drug dealing is kind of a victimless crime. Those who keep the dealer in business do so on their own power, they aren't forced into it. It's also a crime of poverty and circumstances. I don't believe that it ranks anywhere with murders and rapists, nor do I believe rapists, molesters, sexual offenders deserve the death penalty.

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

Doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

I'm hard pressed to be concerned if those on death row experience a little discomfort in their execution. I know that makes me hypocritical.

I'm with you. In my book "cruel and unusual" is shoving these "people" into 6x6 cells for 23 hours a day for 20 years until we finally decide to flip the switch. And then in good old California they put a fold on lethal injection saying that it was painful! ????? So instead of 10 seconds of pain we subject them to the pain of being pinned into a steel cage for the next 40 years and subject us to the pain of supporting them for that time?

EYE FOR AN EYE! Does it matter who does it, as long as a just sentence is carried out after being doled out by a jury of their peers? Do we need a Doctor to flip the switch on an electrocution? Do we need a Doctor to pull the trap door on a hanging? Do we need a Doctor to pull the trigger for the firing squad? These methods of execution are all used in some parts of the U.S. (still avaialbe in many states) and are far moer "cruel and unusual". I, as a lowely EMT, will be glad to easy their suffering, not because I like death (we all fight it every day), but because justice is justice. Personally, I would make it the resposibility of the Jusge or Jury that doled out the sentence. If you can pass that judgement on someone, then ou have to carry it out. IMHO.

 

[bstone]

I guess the biggest issue (outside of killing someone) is not. If they screw up and don't administer enough and the person suffers and lives. That's bad.

 

[Sasha]

I guess the biggest issue (outside of killing someone) is not. If they screw up and don't administer enough and the person suffers and lives. That's bad.

If at first you don't succeed...

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

Drug dealing is kind of a victimless crime. Those who keep the dealer in business do so on their own power, they aren't forced into it. It's also a crime of poverty and circumstances. I don't believe that it ranks anywhere with murders and rapists, nor do I believe rapists, molesters, sexual offenders deserve the death penalty.

Difference of opinion. I believe that there is no such thing as a victimless crime. I ran an IFT years ago where the patient was a 12 year old girl that was left in the care of her older sister. The sister's boyfriend comes over, gave her her some X (because at her age it was just the next step up from MaryJ), and you figure out the rest (assualt of a perverse nature). Leaving aside the assault, the drugs screwed her up BAD. After 12 hours her Bld Wk was still all over the place (ex: her BG was spiking and bottoming out in a matter of hours and would spike again soon after) and she was still confused and disoriented (had no clue what the hell happened, where she was, or who her own mom was). We were transfering her to a Pediatric Facility that could deal with her severe problems. The entire ride was heart wrenching for me. From that day onward I took a hard and fast view of drug dealing. Giving a kid a single hit on a roach can lead that kid down a road of drug abuse, theft to support that habbit, and future dealing to other kids that perpetuates the cycle. There are enough victims here, IMHO.

 

[HotelCo]

EYE FOR AN EYE!

The whole world would be blind.

Ghandi... smart man.

 

[Sasha]

I see that as child endangerment, and not drug dealing.

Many are driven to drug dealing to survive and provide for their families. Especially in today's economy. There ARE jobs, but taking that job means you have to pay for daycare which may take your entire paycheck because those jobs pay minimum wage or slightly above it, but then what? Then you gotta pay rent, then you have to pay electricity, food, clothing, toys for those kids. For those who have no education, they can't cut it and often turn to selling dope because it's a fast buck and your kid might eat that night.

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

I see that as child endangerment, and not drug dealing.

Many are driven to drug dealing to survive and provide for their families. Especially in today's economy. There ARE jobs, but taking that job means you have to pay for daycare which may take your entire paycheck because those jobs pay minimum wage or slightly above it, but then what? Then you gotta pay rent, then you have to pay electricity, food, clothing, toys for those kids. For those who have no education, they can't cut it and often turn to selling dope because it's a fast buck and your kid might eat that night.

Do the ends justify the means? Justifying why you do something doesn't absolve you of the consequence of those actions. If your actions cause people to suffer than you have to answer for it. I just think that drug dealing (and abusing for the at matter) creates more suffering and destroys more lives than Bin Laden could ever hope to. BTW, I volunteer to inject him if we ever get him!

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

The whole world would be blind.

Ghandi... smart man.

Toby Keith... Smarter Man...

Well a man come on the 6 o'clock news
Said somebody's been shot, somebody's been abused
Somebody blew up a building
Somebody stole a car
Somebody got away
Somebody didn't get too far yeah
They didn't get too far

Grandpappy told my pappy, back in my day, son
A man had to answer for the wicked that he done
Take all the rope in Texas
Find a tall oak tree, round up all of them bad boys
Hang them high in the street for all the people to see that

Justice is the one thing you should always find
You got to saddle up your boys
You got to draw a hard line
When the gun smoke settles we'll sing a victory tune
We'll all meet back at the local saloon
We'll raise up our glasses against evil forces
Singing whiskey for my men, beer for my horses

We got too many gangsters doing dirty deeds
We've got too much corruption, too much crime in the streets
It's time the long arm of the law put a few more in the ground
Send 'em all to their maker and he'll settle 'em down
You can bet he'll set 'em down 'cause

Justice is the one thing you should always find
You got to saddle up your boys
You got to draw a hard line
When the gun smoke settles we'll sing a victory tune
We'll all meet back at the local saloon
We'll raise up our glasses against evil forces
Singing whiskey for my men, beer for my horses

Justice is the one thing you should always find
You got to saddle up your boys
You got to draw a hard line
When the gun smoke settles we'll sing a victory tune
We'll all meet back at the local saloon
We'll raise up our glasses against evil forces
Singing whiskey for my men, beer for my horses

 

[SauceyEMT]

nor do I believe rapists, molesters, sexual offenders deserve the death penalty.

Are you kidding? Do you have children? I do..and I'm a cop. With that said, I promise you...if anyone ever rapes, molests, or otherwise sexually assaults my daughter...you will never see them again. Ever.

By the way...recidivism (that rate at which criminals reoffend) rates for murderers are among lowest for any crimimals. One, because, often they are locked up, and two, aside from sociopathic serial killers, most people murder out of a single instance of rage, or another isolated incident. By contrast, rapists, molesters and other pussies who prey on children, almost always reoffend if they are allowed to, (read: released). So really...who's more dangerous?