New Kansas law allows EMS/FD to concealed carry.

[SandpitMedic]

I think in an EMS uniform there would be printing at some point during movements of and/or around patients; with the exception of an ankle rig with something small like a small .22, .38, or a single stack 9mm. Full size, no way. I'd be content with 5 rounds for self defense since I'm not planning on "being a vigilante."

So, with that... I think, as Josh said, that some could carry a firearm, BUT the vast majority could not. While your view may be, let them have the drugs- let them have the truck... Others will not share that mindset. Josh is a person who understands the concept behind concealed carry- it is hidden, from everyone, until it is required (usually never). That's great- off duty.

The hard truth is, and this may be a hard pill to swallow, I wouldn't trust most of you on this very site with a can of pepper spray let alone a firearm. Let alone all the muckety mucks out there on the EMS streets. No ****ing way. They are just as likely - scratch that - MORE likely to accidentally shoot me or have an ND than for it to be of use beneficially in deescalating a situation. Furthermore, for most people, especially the know-it-all, paragod, tough guy, testosterone driven, 9/11 hero syndrome 23 year old in EMS- that gun on his hip changes his psyche to actually drive him to enter into or escalate a hostile situation that he otherwise would not. To put it another words, he would be more emboldened to initiate or increase the likelihood of a conflict rather than deter one or shy away from one.

When you carry, your first option should be to escape. Your mindset should be to avoid conflict, not seek it out. In EMS, conflict finds you- and that's no place for an amateur with a pistol and a "save-the-world" complex. And frankly that is (generously) 50/50 in EMS. Sorry to say; we get some wackos. If I need the police, I'll call the police.

I carry everywhere I go off the job, and I know how to use my weapons, and I am lightly familiar with combat tactics and how to close with and engage an enemy, get off the "x", find cover, etc etc.... But even I wouldn't bring my gun into an ambulance. 999,999/1,000,000 times it will do more harm than good. We don't need it- and no one before you in an ambulance did either. There are other ways to evade conflict and to protect yourself.

 

[NysEms2117]

quick quest sandpit, well 2 of them actually. 1. Should EMS uniforms be changed to not look as "policey"? 2. Do you think it should be a thing like the UK has with their police where its 1 out of every 15 officers or a number of that sort carry. So would your dep chief thats working that day carry and respond to the potentially hostile scenes. I understand you cannot tell if a scene will turn bad, but using judgement (GSW calls, stabbings, ect)

Edit: i do agree that a m&p bodyguard or something of that sort around the ankle would be the best route

 

[Summit]

If it is a potentially bad scene, I was a PD response, not an armed EMS supervisor.

 

[CALEMT]

There are other ways to evade conflict and to protect yourself.

Such as common sense and situational awareness.

 

[Summit]

I worked with ugly mauve polos, definitely didn't like a cop. I like how white shirts look, very professional, but what a pain to keep clean. I've seen some bright blue with yellow EMS markings that are very clearly not LEO.

I like the high viz.

Ambulance Uniforms around the world:

British Columbia

India

Australia

Europe EMS Expo

India Again

Germany

Australia again

France

More France

NZ

Italy

 

[NysEms2117]

i think that UK germany and just Europe in generally are how EMS should be(uniform wise, no idea how EMS system actually is). Where there is 0 doubt that you are LE, a nice shirt like that some uneducated anti gov't people will still think it (in my opinion). Thank you for your input

 

[nightmoves123]

There are plenty of countries in the world with much more violent crime than the US, and those places haven't deemed it necessary to arm their paramedics.

When EMS departments begin to enforce mandatory wearing of body armor and helmets at all times on duty, then I might start questioning the requirement for weaponry. And even then I'd probably be requesting armored ambulances before I'd ask for a weapon.

 

[SandpitMedic]

I don't have an opinion on uniforms other than I want a navy t shirt.
I don't think one armed medic with captain bars at HQ, or wherever, is a deterant nor effective. It's not necessary. Stay alert, call the cops, scene safety.

 

[MJG]

I worked with ugly mauve polos, definitely didn't like a cop. I like how white shirts look, very professional, but what a pain to keep clean. I've seen some bright blue with yellow EMS markings that are very clearly not LEO.

I like the high viz.

Ambulance Uniforms around the world:

British Columbia

India

Australia

Europe EMS Expo

India Again

Germany

Australia again

France

More France

NZ

Italy

Sorry to interrupt - but i`m afraid, what you posted under "Germany" is not what German EMS uniforms look like at all. From the license plates and the uniforms I would also guess that this photo has been taken either a couple of years ago in Hungary or the Czech Republic.
German EMS uniforms mostly look like the orange one you posted under Europe EMS expo.
The green NZ type is quite common in the UK as well - a type of uniform that looks both professional and has a good visibility. It also has a clear connection to a general EMS theme.

cheers!

 

[Summit]

Sorry to interrupt - but i`m afraid, what you posted under "Germany" is not what German EMS uniforms look like at all. From the license plates and the uniforms I would also guess that this photo has been taken either a couple of years ago in Hungary or the Czech Republic.
German EMS uniforms mostly look like the orange one you posted under Europe EMS expo.
The green NZ type is quite common in the UK as well - a type of uniform that looks both professional and has a good visibility. It also has a clear connection to a general EMS theme.

cheers!

Thank you for clearing that up!

 

[Carlos Danger]

There are plenty of countries in the world with much more violent crime than the US, and those places haven't deemed it necessary to arm their paramedics.

Except that's not really what this is about. No one is advocating for "armed medics".

There is a big difference between "arming" the paramedics and simply removing prohibitions that disallow an otherwise qualified CCP holder (who happens to be employed as a paramedic) from carrying their weapon while at work.

 

[SandpitMedic]

I think the main prohibition would be policies of an employer, whether public or private.

A CCW holder is not prevented by law (in most cases) from carrying at work. That's a policy decision.

The goal is for no one to know you have it, until such a time when that becomes irrelevant and your life is in danger. Theoretically there are medics out there who are packing, and you just don't know it.

 

[NysEms2117]

the only issue that may interfere with work, is GUN FREE ZONES, because as we all know, they are the safest places on the earth. Example if a postal worker had something wrong or a place where you cannot bring a firearm. Or entering a school zone, you would have to delay patient care to secure your firearm at an appropriate place.

 

[nightmoves123]

Except that's not really what this is about. No one is advocating for "armed medics".

There is a big difference between "arming" the paramedics and simply removing prohibitions that disallow an otherwise qualified CCP holder (who happens to be employed as a paramedic) from carrying their weapon while at work.

True, good point

 

[Tigger]

We are currently debating changing over to Polos to look less like cops (though more and more cops are wearing polos?). I don't feel like the uniform has much to do with being targeted. Yes, EMS providers have been shot and killed while on scene, but I do not see the uniform looking like the police as having much to do with that. Many of these acts were preplanned ambush, no uniform is going to change that shooter's mind. We wear blue button downs with badges, and do bare a passing resemblance to police, which I have only ever found to be helpful really. People are inclined to look at the most put together people for leadership and we fill that role in part because we look like we know what we are doing. This is something we hear from patients too.

As for allowing licensed CCW holders to carry, I still don't how I feel. The back of an ambulance is a very confined space.

 

[SandpitMedic]

the only issue that may interfere with work, is GUN FREE ZONES, because as we all know, they are the safest places on the earth. Example if a postal worker had something wrong or a place where you cannot bring a firearm. Or entering a school zone, you would have to delay patient care to secure your firearm at an appropriate place.

I disagree... If I'm carrying on duty, and no one knows... I'm bringing that thing everywhere unless there is a metal detector... In which case we would likely not even be forced to go into it. We go into prisons and jails all the time- no pat downs... Just a truck search (a poor one).

 

[NysEms2117]

Does not change that it's illegal... Unless you also happen to be a federal agents all post offices and school zones are gun free zones. Again I don't make the laws sadly .


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[SandpitMedic]

I understand that. But no one is checking me.... And if I'm taking it out, I'm using it, to save my life- at that point it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

This is a hypothetical, as I do not currently carry on the job. Should the hostile climate increase or EMS be targeted like LE, I will reevaluate that choice. As of now I don't think EMS should be introducing firearms into EMS situations, and I can count on one hand the EMS folks I know out of hundreds that I would trust to even if it were allowed.

 

[NysEms2117]

I completely understand and agree whole heartedly I feel civilians should defend themselves, save police for extreme. Just wanted to make sure the waters were clear with the law. Again I'd do the same if I were in your shoes. Thanks for your service


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[Tigger]

I completely understand and agree whole heartedly I feel civilians should defend themselves, save police for extreme. Just wanted to make sure the waters were clear with the law. Again I'd do the same if I were in your shoes. Thanks for your service


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This is exactly my issue with EMS providers having CCWs. We need to have a much lower threshold for getting LE involved and prevent situations from getting out of hand. Having a weapon on the ambulance should have nothing to do with when LE gets involved.