I need perspectives

[Ewok Jerky]

1. Sounds super passive aggressive and I know passive aggressive I am a pro. Tread lightly.

2. Can we get a camera in there this would make a great reality show.

 

[RebelAngel]

You're wrong, actually. Volunteer EMS agencies are closing down left and right in the U.S. because of lack of volunteers and political red-tape. The closest paid service to us is hurting for EMTs also. It's not a strictly volunteer issue in this area. You want to see what I mean come live in our area for 6 months. I have lived up and down the east coast and been to traveled to other areas of the U.S., it's a whole different world out here.

As far as the Chief goes, I understand what you are saying and I reminded him time again that our SOPs and SOGs say he is accountable for everything that happens within that FD. He should oversee everything. Ironically, he holds a high position in the department he works for under Homeland Security and several staff under him. I know he has the leadership and the teaching abilities, but that's work and the FD is pretty much a hobby, know what I mean?

I also agree that if she knows she is burning out and can not do what needs to be done to maintain the Squad she should resign.

Regarding playing the political game, I get **** down, that's all there is to it.

 

[akflightmedic]

First, holding a position and having staff under you in a paid position does not mean you are qualified to lead. So do not make that inaccurate assumption. I am not saying he doesn't, I am just saying position of authority does not mean good leader.

Second, if he cannot take his hobby seriously when it has such an impact on the community and is in such dire need of the volunteer services, then he needs to go as well. This is why it needs to be a paid position. To ensure someone is adequately compensated to make sure the right things are happening and the department is going in the right direction at all times.

It is time for EMS to stop being a hobby.

 

[triemal04]

It is time for EMS to stop being a hobby.

Why hello, I think we have a winner here.

There will always be a time and place for volunteerism, yes, even in EMS. America is far to vast and different a country for every single part to have a paid, 24/7 department. But the the places that should actually have volunteers are far, far fewer than exist today. As in, think of BFE Montana, Wyoming, Texas, Alaska, maybe the UP and other far flung and truly remote areas like those.

But for the rest...nope. Time for them to go. If you or anyone reading this is in a position of authority in your little volunteer enclave, your first and foremost job should be exploring the possibility of bringing a professional service to your location. This doesn't neccasarily mean that your little squad or group or rickey rescue combine will cease to exist (though that may happen), just that your role, at minimum, will diminish.

And you know what? If you are really doing this for altruistic reasons...you should be ok with that.

Of course, if you are doing this for personal gain, be it socially, emotionally, or because you just want to be the "hero" you probably don't want to even consider that...

 

[Tigger]

Why hello, I think we have a winner here.

There will always be a time and place for volunteerism, yes, even in EMS. America is far to vast and different a country for every single part to have a paid, 24/7 department. But the the places that should actually have volunteers are far, far fewer than exist today. As in, think of BFE Montana, Wyoming, Texas, Alaska, maybe the UP and other far flung and truly remote areas like those.

But for the rest...nope. Time for them to go. If you or anyone reading this is in a position of authority in your little volunteer enclave, your first and foremost job should be exploring the possibility of bringing a professional service to your location. This doesn't neccasarily mean that your little squad or group or rickey rescue combine will cease to exist (though that may happen), just that your role, at minimum, will diminish.

And you know what? If you are really doing this for altruistic reasons...you should be ok with that.

Of course, if you are doing this for personal gain, be it socially, emotionally, or because you just want to be the "hero" you probably don't want to even consider that...

Could not agree more. Our volunteers support having an excellent and fully staffed EMS service covering their fire districts because they understand that we can provide significantly better care than their model could ever dream of. Some of these areas clung to having their volunteer BLS transport agency for a long, but finally realized that it is not in the best interest of their residents (who they are committed to serve) to continue to do so.

I don't want to hear the argument that it is not possible in xyz area. We provide service to over 600 miles of rural, relatively poor areas. It took time to get the system set up, but we have it and it works. Sure, we only have three ambulances at one time, but it's better than what the volunteers could provide. That's not a dig at them, it's the reality.

 

[Ewok Jerky]

What about local volunteer response dispatched along with a private ambulance with an extended response time? That's how the far flung areas of our county in CA was/is.

 

[Tigger]

What about local volunteer response dispatched along with a private ambulance with an extended response time? That's how the far flung areas of our county in CA was/is.

That's what we have. It's great, but if the volunteers disappeared, they would still have EMS service. We aren't private but it's the same concept.

 

[SandpitMedic]

This is a great thread.

 

[Ewok Jerky]

Yeah I mean a rural area can't expect an 8 minute response time if they aren't willing to pay for it.

 

[MonkeyArrow]

Yeah I mean a rural area can't expect an 8 minute response time if they aren't willing to pay for it.

The problem is even if they could pay for it, would they want to? The cost would be outrageously high to get a response time that low. You'd have to dedicate an ambulance to the town, probably to have it run 1 call in 24 hours. Its not cost effective to do that, even if the citizens were willing to pay the extra taxes. Plus, most people in the rural community want to have their own land/space and are at peace with the extended response times of public services if they would ever be needed.

 

[Ewok Jerky]

Plus, most people in the rural community want to have their own land/space and are at peace with the extended response times of public services if they would ever be needed.

Right, thus have a local volunteer response with transport dispatched from nearest service. it's not a problem it's a solution.

 

[triemal04]

What about local volunteer response dispatched along with a private ambulance with an extended response time? That's how the far flung areas of our county in CA was/is.

Nothing at all wrong with that, and that's part of why volunteer EMS won't completely go away.

Let's face it, even if all American EMS was completely publicly funded as a third service, you still probably wouldn't see an ambulance staffed by professional EMTs/paramedics in every single town/hamlet/wide spot on the road out there; the country is just to big, and there are to many people in out of the way places in very low numbers to justify it. In all honesty, if you live in a rural area, you should, in fact had damn well better be, resigned to the fact that services that are available in more populated areas will not be available to you, or will take much longer to reach you.

But...that does not mean that people in those places shouldn't look for other alternatives to using a purely volunteer system. Volunteer first response followed by professional transport...a single professional that uses a chase car and transports in a volunteer ambulance...even a true partnership where the ambulance and paramedic are paid by one group but the driver is a volunteer (and this exists in many different places and various forms...even one involving a large private EMS provider)...there are a lot of options out there to change the status quo.

Of course, in a place that has only relied on volunteers, this will mean that they have to take a step back and publicly acknowledge that the service they currently provide is subpar. And that they will no longer be the real heroes who come a'running.

Which is where the real trouble lies...

 

[CALEMT]

even a true partnership where the ambulance and paramedic are paid by one group but the driver is a volunteer

This is kinda how is was where I worked as a seasonal. It was very rural up in the mountains, nearest city was a good hour and a half drive. Total of 3 paid fire departments, county (only one person on the engine) works 4 12's and a occasional 24 (rare), USFS (5 on the engine) which is 0800-1700, they'll help with a TC or structure fire not so much with medical aids, then theres CAL FIRE (3 or 4 depending on various factors) staffed 24/7. Then the volunteer ambulance with a driver (not a EMT or medic) and one EMT. So the call comes out and county responds (if staffed) and usually requests CAL FIRE ambulance will arrive on scene about 5-10 minutes after the first unit goes on scene. If for whatever reason the volunteer ambulance can't respond, there is a ALS (paid) company about 45 minutes down the hill.

This system I described is no where near perfect, it has its kinks like everywhere else but it works. Granted this is not a busy area (maybe 5 calls a month, VERY slow) but when a call comes in, someone is at scene fairly quick. As far as taxes and all the crap that goes with 911 EMS and fire I have no idea what it costs, can't be to outrageous seeing as most of the community is retired, small business owner, or vacation cabins. Do I believe that areas should be completely volunteer? No I don't, not to bash vollies but it takes quite some time to get wheels rolling to a call. The system I described could be flipped flopped in some areas and probably is. Volunteer fire and paid EMS. Either way it benefits the community.