DrParasite
The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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Violence Against EMS Providers: What Can We Do About It?
- Thread starter DrParasite
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firecoins
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beat the crap out of the people doing it. violence always solves the problem 
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Ghostnineone
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Have huell ride in your rig 
Achilles
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Isn't there a person on this forum that teaches EMT defense techniques?
Ghostnineone
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Are those different than regular defense techniques? Do they involve attacking them with the defib pads or trauma shears? 
firetender
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Calling DT4EMS!
LondonMedic
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How not to get attacked? Don't be a knob.
The people who get the most drama at work are the ones who have aggressive body language, can't deescalate and won't walk away.
The people who get the most drama at work are the ones who have aggressive body language, can't deescalate and won't walk away.
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DrParasite
The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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DT4EMS (Kip) was one of the authors of this article.
some highlights:
some highlights:
And others who have management and administrators who won't back their people who do file complaints, because it's "just part of the job"
a very good question.
Anjel
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Two weeks ago my partner and I were attacked by a patient.
PD was on scene but far enough away, so that the patient grabbed my partner and started hitting and choking her. It finally resulted with my partner falling back, breaking her thumb, and severing tendons and ligaments. It ended with me having multiple bruises from the punches I received trying to protect my partner.
My partner is now off work for 2 months due to surgery she had to do. We were told not to press charges, because nothing would come of it, and the patient was psychotic.
It is a hard thing to go through. My partner is spiraling out of control, because she was made to feel vulnerable, and no one likes that feeling.
I wish my company would offer some kind of training on what to do with that situation. But even if we did have training, it all happened so fast, I don't know if it would of did any good.
PD was on scene but far enough away, so that the patient grabbed my partner and started hitting and choking her. It finally resulted with my partner falling back, breaking her thumb, and severing tendons and ligaments. It ended with me having multiple bruises from the punches I received trying to protect my partner.
My partner is now off work for 2 months due to surgery she had to do. We were told not to press charges, because nothing would come of it, and the patient was psychotic.
It is a hard thing to go through. My partner is spiraling out of control, because she was made to feel vulnerable, and no one likes that feeling.
I wish my company would offer some kind of training on what to do with that situation. But even if we did have training, it all happened so fast, I don't know if it would of did any good.
Sandog
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Sorry to hear you went through that. Now this is gonna make me sound like a pig, but I would always partner up a female with a male, not female/female for reasons above. Sorry, just my opinion. Then again, I am old.
That sucks. Keep an eye on your partner and help her any way you can. If it happened that quick really all you can is defend yourself enough to get away.
I would've filed charges and would expect one of my crews to do the same. Last time I got into this situation sheriff deputy filed charges without me knowing. I got a call from the district attorneys office asking if I wanted to keep the charges active and show up to court.
I feel there needs to be training on how to defend ourselves enough to make a retreat to safety. To an extent it is part of the job however it shouldn't be tolerated and law enforcement needs to be involved and charges filed when necessary.
Anjel
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Sorry to hear you went through that. Now this is gonna make me sound like a pig, but I would always partner up a female with a male, not female/female for reasons above. Sorry, just my opinion. Then again, I am old.
I actually agree. I work in a very dangerous city. I would feel more comfortable with a male partner. If not for safety, just the extra muscle.
firetender
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It might help your partner to file something against the perp; charges, a complaint, SOMETHING to show she is taking action against the person who -- for whatever reason -- crossed the line.
An important part of the healing has to do with some sort of empowerment, which could also mean confronting her attacker in a controlled environment. I'm not talking duking it out, I'm talking meeting with and facing the perp squarely.
The same could apply to you as well, Anjel -- you got brutalized and you don't deserve it.
An important part of the healing has to do with some sort of empowerment, which could also mean confronting her attacker in a controlled environment. I'm not talking duking it out, I'm talking meeting with and facing the perp squarely.
The same could apply to you as well, Anjel -- you got brutalized and you don't deserve it.
wyomingearth
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I was thinking even if patient is psychotic that charges should be pressed so that there is a legal record of how dangerous the patient can be...maybe they will be treated differently in the future if they have a record of violence besides the psychosis and that will help protect others in the future...also I too am a big fan of at least one male on a crew.....my station soooo loves to rock the broad squads and there is one team whose combined weight is barely 200 pounds, needless to say when they run together there is usually another crew following them around for lift assists
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Anjel,
I was uncomfortably surprised by your company's response to Bill Rose's assault and death a few months ago.
From an outside perspective, the company's persistence that charges not be filed against those that assault and kill providers is utterly unacceptable.
There isn't much you can do as a provider if your not willing to rock the boat, but at the very least the company should have a policy in place to minimize provider harm and report incidents to police.
I was uncomfortably surprised by your company's response to Bill Rose's assault and death a few months ago.
From an outside perspective, the company's persistence that charges not be filed against those that assault and kill providers is utterly unacceptable.
There isn't much you can do as a provider if your not willing to rock the boat, but at the very least the company should have a policy in place to minimize provider harm and report incidents to police.
Anjel
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Yea I know. I am starting to realize a few things. And where this happened.... Was where bill was attacked.
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DrParasite
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Assault on an EMT/EMS worker should be an automatic felony charge.
you are an EDP and you attack and EMS worker? automatic charges.
you are drunk/druggie under the influence and you attack an EMS worker? automatic charges.
you put your hands on an EMS worker, without permission, and you should have an automatic correction that inform you that it will not be tolerated. and automatic charges.
It really doesn't matter if the charges stick or not, just the fact that they are filled against the attacker sends a strong enough signal.
in many places, PD is responsible for this. in some places, EMS crews will look after their own, and initiate said corrective actions. But there needs to be consequences.
We ARE soft targets, and as long as the public (and our admin and our culture) tolerates these attacks, they will continue.
you are an EDP and you attack and EMS worker? automatic charges.
you are drunk/druggie under the influence and you attack an EMS worker? automatic charges.
you put your hands on an EMS worker, without permission, and you should have an automatic correction that inform you that it will not be tolerated. and automatic charges.
It really doesn't matter if the charges stick or not, just the fact that they are filled against the attacker sends a strong enough signal.
in many places, PD is responsible for this. in some places, EMS crews will look after their own, and initiate said corrective actions. But there needs to be consequences.
We ARE soft targets, and as long as the public (and our admin and our culture) tolerates these attacks, they will continue.
Doing a quick google search I'm not finding much about this as far as assault being mentioned.
What happened?
ShannahQuilts
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I agree with this for at least two reasons. One is the empowerment aspect of it - being able to take some control and fight back against someone who did so much harm to the two of you.
Another is that how "the system" treats people can be influenced by the paper trail. I ran into this with my disabled children: actual paperwork showing that they failed tests, so that their disability was clearly outlined, made all the difference.
With this person being violent, if papers are filed, this might be just what the person's psychiatrist, parole officer, or whoever, is waiting for to be able to justify taking an action to help that person, or at least, keep them from harming more people.
As a side note: how does it work in other professions when someone gets assaulted? Is EMS the only field in which we're expected to get the snot beat out of us and not do anything about it?
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DrParasite
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I know ER staff (Nurses and techs) where it is considered "an accepted risk of the job" as well.