Type of poisoning where giving O2 is instanty fatal

[tickle me doe face]

I would like to preface by saying yes, this was an extra credit question posed to my EMT class.

EMT class is over though, and I forgot to seek out an answer.

Our instructor told us anyone who could write on the back of their final "one type of poisoning where administering o2 would prove instantly fatal" would recieve "some" bonus points on the exam.

I spent a ton of time researching this question, and could never find an answer that I thought really fit.

On the back of my exam I wrote COPD though I don't know if i got the points to not:unsure:

any ideas anyone?

 

[tickle me doe face]

I realize COPD is not a type of poisoning, but it was the best condition I could come up with.

:blush:

 

[abckidsmom]

http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/chemical/pim399.htm#SubSectionTitle:9.1.2 Inhalation

 

[tickle me doe face]

http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/chemical/pim399.htm#SubSectionTitle:9.1.2 Inhalation

ughh are you kidding?

I saw that in my research, but decided that it couldn't be right because the instructor stressed that it would be instantly fatal.

I asked him to clarify on what he meant by instant, and he said that in this case, administering high flow oxygen would surely kill the patient by the time we arrive at the hospital.

which sounds crazy for high flow o2 to kill anyone, because we were told everybody get's high flow O2.

 

[tickle me doe face]

also I remember reading that paraquat is an organo-pesticide that was used primarily in mexico, to kill marijuana plants in the 1970's, which i thought added to my guess that paraquat was not the answer he was seeking.

 

[JPINFV]

which sounds crazy for high flow o2 to kill anyone, because we were told everybody get's high flow O2.

They're so sweet when they're so young and naive.

Look up radical oxygen species and reperfusion injury. The unfortunate thing is that from an EMS standpoint, he's "correct." From a medical and biological standpoint, he's wrong. As a quick for instance, how are you feeling right now on room air?

 

[Cup of Joe]

My response would have been this:

At a BLS level, we are not instructed, nor directed by protocols, to withhold oxygen from a patient.

Yes, I know, it may not be good for the patient, but it's what were told to do.

 

[tickle me doe face]

They're so sweet when they're so young and naive.

Look up radical oxygen species and reperfusion injury. The unfortunate thing is that from an EMS standpoint, he's "correct." From a medical and biological standpoint, he's wrong. As a quick for instance, how are you feeling right now on room air?

the way we were taught is that molecular oxygen is a radical inhibitor, so it inhibits potentially damaging radical processes within our bodies.

 

[JPINFV]

My response would have been this:

At a BLS level, we are not instructed, nor directed by protocols, to withhold oxygen from a patient.

Yes, I know, it may not be good for the patient, but it's what were told to do.

Just curious...

1. By "withholding oxygen" do you mean to put a patient in an environment devoid of oxygen?

2. Can you withhold an intervention that was never indicated in the first place? Is spinal immobilization being withheld from medical patients or is it simply not indicated? Are you withholding oral glucose from a patient with leg pain because you don't think (or they aren't if you can measure their blood glucose level) they are hypoglycemic?

2. Are your protocols online, and if so, do you have a link to them that says the indication for supplemental oxygen administration is "ambulance?"

 

[JPINFV]

the way we were taught is that molecular oxygen is a radical inhibitor, so it inhibits potentially damaging radical processes within our bodies.

Demand your money back because your instructor(s) have obviously never heard of "science."

 

[tickle me doe face]

what's wrong with that statement?

 

[Shishkabob]

1. By "withholding oxygen" do you mean to put a patient in an environment devoid of oxygen?

There are a couple I want to do that to....

 

[JPINFV]

what's wrong with that statement?

Oxygen itself is what is dangerous when it comes to radicals. It's the reason why your body has catalase and peroxidase enzymes. It's the reason for anti-oxidants. In fact, one of the few beneficial uses your body has for radical oxygen species is to kill bacteria as part of your bodies immune response. To say that oxygen is a "radical inhibitor" shows such a profound misunderstanding of biology as saying the world is flat is a misunderstanding of world geography.

 

[squrt29batt12]

Demand your money back because your instructor(s) have obviously never heard of "science."

LOL

 

[tickle me doe face]

sorry double post

 

[tickle me doe face]

Oxygen itself is what is dangerous when it comes to radicals. It's the reason why your body has catalase and peroxidase enzymes. It's the reason for anti-oxidants. In fact, one of the few beneficial uses your body has for radical oxygen species is to kill bacteria as part of your bodies immune response. To say that oxygen is a "radical inhibitor" shows such a profound misunderstanding of biology as saying the world is flat is a misunderstanding of world geography.

I'm not sure I understand. Couldn't/wouldn't an oxygen free radical couple with any other radical to annihilate 2 radicals, and thus inhibit the radical process? :unsure:

 

[Cup of Joe]

Just curious...

1. By "withholding oxygen" do you mean to put a patient in an environment devoid of oxygen?

2. Can you withhold an intervention that was never indicated in the first place? Is spinal immobilization being withheld from medical patients or is it simply not indicated? Are you withholding oral glucose from a patient with leg pain because you don't think (or they aren't if you can measure their blood glucose level) they are hypoglycemic?

2. Are your protocols online, and if so, do you have a link to them that says the indication for supplemental oxygen administration is "ambulance?"

NYS BLS Protocols (and as we are instructed)...in breathing section of initial assessment, every patient should be started on high flow oxygen via non-rebreather at 15lpm If breathing is inadequate, ventilate with supplemental O2.

http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/ems/pdf/2008-11-19_bls_protocols

In response to #1: withhold high flow oxygen.
In response to #2: According to protocols and course material, if there's a patient (you know, not refusing treatment, etc.), then they get "high concentration oxygen."

This is all according to the book and my protocols, which I believe would make it the "correct" answer.

 

[tickle me doe face]

NYS BLS Protocols (and as we are instructed)...in breathing section of initial assessment, every patient should be started on high flow oxygen via non-rebreather at 15lpm If breathing is inadequate, ventilate with supplemental O2.

http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/ems/pdf/2008-11-19_bls_protocols

In response to #2: According to protocols and course material, if there's a patient (you know, not refusing treatment, etc.), then they get oxygen.

This is all according to the book and my protocols, which I believe would make it the "correct" answer.

yeah we were told everyone gets high flow 02.

actually is was more drilled into us than anything else.

 

[CAOX3]

Demand your money back because your instructor(s) have obviously never heard of "science."

Come on now science has no place in medicine.

Emergency medical service is taught in garages and basements, we don't need no stinking classrooms.

 

[Anjel]

Ive never put a pt on high flow o2. Ive taken someone off but never needed to put them on it