Identity

Should we implement a identity verification program?

  • No effin way

    Votes: 10 58.8%
  • Yes, but optional

    Votes: 7 41.2%
  • Yes, and mandatory

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    17
  • Poll closed .

Jon

Administrator
Community Leader
8,009
58
48
One of the double-edged swords of online forums is that one must accept what a poster says about himself/herself at face value. Anonymity, or at least partial anonymity, is a protection for some. Sometimes it’s because their employer isn’t accepting of a presence in social media, sometimes it’s because the individual doesn’t want to share their “real self” for personal reasons. In some cases it’s even been because the user sometimes posts from a COUNTRY that considers social media to be a threat to the government. On the flipside, I know some members here are very open about whom they are, and I’ve met some of them in real life.

On the other hand, there’s a downside to anonymity. Some people become keyboard commandos, and build up an online persona that either enhances their real-life existence, or is even completely fraudulent. Examples: Claiming a title, position, or training that the user doesn’t have, or claiming to belong to/work for a service that they don’t. This issue isn’t just limited to forums. I’ve seen the same issues out in the blogosphere, and on the microblogging website, Twitter.

This thread is NOT to talk about specific incidents/users. The past is the past. What has been done before is done, and we can’t change it, only learn from it. What I am looking to do is open a dialogue about anonymous versus non- anonymous posting, and benefits/risks of any form of verification.

Our CL team has long discussed this issue, and aside from the maintaining the status quo, we’ve been unable to come to a consensus. What I’m looking for is YOUR thoughts:

• Is there value to some form of outside identity verification?
• Do you have any suggestions/examples for implementing a verification program?
• Should it be optional or mandatory?
• What should the response of the community be in the future for a fraudulent user?

I’m asking for your ideas and suggestions. There’s no guarantee that we’ll do ANYTHING at all, or we might do something else completely.

Thanks,
Jon
 

VFlutter

Flight Nurse
3,728
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Like you said, there are pro's and con's to the anonymity of the internet but in my opinion it causes more problems on this forum than it helps. Many times it causes people to say things that they most likely would never say in real life or to a person's face. This can be helpful in some situations but for the most part just leads to arrogance and attitudes.

Especially in the context of medical discussion I think having users verified is a great idea. If you look at many of the medical blogs out there most users use their real names and openly display their qualifications. I think there is value added.

My suggestion would be to have some type of optional process to verify a user's identity and certifications and then once verified change the color of the user's username. Much like the admin's using red. This would allow other users to see who is actually serious and willing to stand behind their postings. Or maybe making certain areas of the forum only available to verified users (such as the advanced medical discussion)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Medic Tim

Forum Deputy Chief
Premium Member
2,140
83
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I would be fine with this being optional (to start). For ones that are verified by whatever process is chosen, their title will be under their avatar(likebit currently is). Others who are not won't have credentials listed or unverified or something similar next to their title. No other info state, country, city, work or name should be made public unless the poster chooses.

You could also have certain forums/subforums only available or viewable to verified members. YOu could also have it so that the verified members do not have the ads on the page.

This site is a great resource for ems providers. Having members who are vetted will only make the site better IMHO.
 

Anonymous

Forum Captain
364
7
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Anonymity is crucial to online forums because it allows users to post freely without worry of being identified, ridiculed, harassed etc. Without this anonymity users will be less likely to post about something that may be deemed immoral, illegal or taboo and often times these may be valuable questions that others may have or can learn from.

Part of the dynamic of any online forum are keyboard warriors and even people we think we know personally often make claims that are exaggerated or completely fabricated. In some cases we are none the wiser and in others we can smell the bull**** from a mile away. Other than in regards to credentials how is outside verification going to change that?

Benefits do not outweigh the risks in my opinion...
 

Aidey

Community Leader Emeritus
4,800
11
38
I think it is important to differentiate between verified and public. My identity is not public, but it has been verified. I think having the mods vet people would be a legitimate option, but I do not think anyone's identity should be public unless they want it to be.
 

ffemt8978

Forum Vice-Principal
Community Leader
11,025
1,475
113
I think it is important to differentiate between verified and public. My identity is not public, but it has been verified. I think having the mods vet people would be a legitimate option, but I do not think anyone's identity should be public unless they want it to be.

But that brings up issues in and of itself. Data security and retention, periodic review/renewal, and subpeona/employer demands for identifying info.
 

exodus

Forum Deputy Chief
2,895
242
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But that brings up issues in and of itself. Data security and retention, periodic review/renewal, and subpeona/employer demands for identifying info.

How about this for verification.

A license / cert card with the persons username and a random number or something written on a piece of paper together in a picture. The user blocks out the id info such as #'s or names. Sure it's easy to fake if someone really wanted too, but most people I don't think will go out of their way to do it. It also released the site from the responsibility of having to give up ID information legally since they store none.

Or have it be a one time thing with the info, and upon verification, the identification information is immediately destroyed / deleted so you will no longer have access to it?
 

bigbaldguy

Former medic seven years 911 service in houston
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This all sounds like an awful lot of work :/

I like the idea of being able to verify credentials but I don't think any of the CLs are in anyway advocating that there should ever be a requirement to post any personal information.
 

CANDawg

Forum Asst. Chief
520
3
18
I think this could be valuable, but only in a limited sense. I don't think people should be asked to post information about themselves that is private, even something like a name. That said, the ability to have one's credentials verified would be valuable to see if someone who says they have a certain level of education actually does. I like the idea of having a separate field underneath the avatar showing "verified training" or something of the like, and possibly having a differently coloured username.

That said, I don't agree with having separate forums only viewable or postable by these verified members. First of all, if it is easy to differentiate between verified and unverified posters, readers should be allowed to come to their own conclusions as to what posts are backed by education and training. Second of all, why limit these possibly very valuable sources of information to just verified members? What about the people who wish to stay unverified (or don't have any certification TO verify) that want to browse these forums and learn? Don't horde information and experience - it does no one any good.
 

bigbaldguy

Former medic seven years 911 service in houston
4,043
42
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Second of all, why limit these possibly very valuable sources of information to just verified members? What about the people who wish to stay unverified (or don't have any certification TO verify) that want to browse these forums and learn? Don't horde information and experience - it does no one any good.

Excellent point. I like the way you think. If the information is genuine who cares if the messenger isn't.
 

VFlutter

Flight Nurse
3,728
1,264
113
I think this could be valuable, but only in a limited sense. I don't think people should be asked to post information about themselves that is private, even something like a name. That said, the ability to have one's credentials verified would be valuable to see if someone who says they have a certain level of education actually does. I like the idea of having a separate field underneath the avatar showing "verified training" or something of the like, and possibly having a differently coloured username.

That said, I don't agree with having separate forums only viewable or postable by these verified members. First of all, if it is easy to differentiate between verified and unverified posters, readers should be allowed to come to their own conclusions as to what posts are backed by education and training. Second of all, why limit these possibly very valuable sources of information to just verified members? What about the people who wish to stay unverified (or don't have any certification TO verify) that want to browse these forums and learn? Don't horde information and experience - it does no one any good.

Possibly make it so that everyone could see the threads but only verified members could post?
 

Meursault

Organic Mechanic
759
35
28
• Is there value to some form of outside identity verification?
If you want to play LinkedIn. Otherwise, there's a very simple way for determining the worth of a poster's contributions: look at the content. There's a reason Advanced Medical Discussions is doing reasonably well, and it's not because of verification. It's because anyone who posts the crap you see in the other forums in there will get their s:censored:t slapped. With evidence. dbo789 hit on the idea before I did.

• Should it be optional or mandatory?
Optional. I'm not a person. I'm an identity. Such is the Internet.
• What should the response of the community be in the future for a fraudulent user?
That's going to be determined on a case-by-case basis. It's also up to the community, not policy.
If the information is genuine who cares if the messenger isn't.
 

Aidey

Community Leader Emeritus
4,800
11
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But that brings up issues in and of itself. Data security and retention, periodic review/renewal, and subpeona/employer demands for identifying info.

The answer to all of that is easy. Don't keep records. And why would there have to be periodic review/renewal?

I'm also not talking about full verification of all certs and stuff. Just looking at enough info to confirm that so-and-so is generally who they say they are. For example if someone spent 20 minutes looking around my facebook it would confirm where I live, how long I've been working in EMS, and who my employers have been.
 

Meursault

Organic Mechanic
759
35
28
For example if someone spent 20 minutes looking around my facebook it would confirm where I live, how long I've been working in EMS, and who my employers have been.

Yes, but why does any of that matter?

Employer/school/course experiences are the only case I can think of where that matters, and that can be handled by providing corroborating information to interested parties if you really want to take the risk.
 

Aidey

Community Leader Emeritus
4,800
11
38
Because it would verify my identity without the CLs having to search state EMS databases or have people send them copies of their cert cards. I have several people from here on my personal facebook. I bet if you asked any of them if they doubt my identity the answer would be no.
 

DesertMedic66

Forum Troll
11,269
3,450
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I don't think it's needed. As some other people have posted if the information is correct then does it really matter?

It brings up an event with a past member. Yes he was lying about who he was/level of training. But the information that his posts contained was excellent. I never saw someone correct something that he posted.

So once again is it really needed?
 

bigbaldguy

Former medic seven years 911 service in houston
4,043
42
48
Because it would verify my identity without the CLs having to search state EMS databases or have people send them copies of their cert cards. I have several people from here on my personal facebook. I bet if you asked any of them if they doubt my identity the answer would be no.

I don't think anyone doubts you are who you say you are but I don't think using one easily fake able on line profile to verify another is a viable method of verification. We've been fooled by rather elaborate Facebook profiles in the past.
 

DT4EMS

Kip Teitsort, Founder
1,225
3
0
When I would frequent LEO specific forums........ they required a "vetting" process. They would actually contact your department and make sure they said who you say you are.

I have had this argument before about making sure people were putting out good information. You have some members here that are brilliant. But you have some that are not so bright. The key is sifting through the muck to get to the ones that speak the truth.

I have been a fan of EMTLife for years......because the overwhelming majority of folks here are simply good people.

I am all for people having an "opinion" on a topic. But like Jon stated in the OP.......sometimes folks talk just a little out of turn so to speak :)

I think "proof" is a good thing.
 

rwik123

Forum Asst. Chief
718
7
18
When I would frequent LEO specific forums........ they required a "vetting" process. They would actually contact your department and make sure they said who you say you are.

I have had this argument before about making sure people were putting out good information. You have some members here that are brilliant. But you have some that are not so bright. The key is sifting through the muck to get to the ones that speak the truth.

I have been a fan of EMTLife for years......because the overwhelming majority of folks here are simply good people.

I am all for people having an "opinion" on a topic. But like Jon stated in the OP.......sometimes folks talk just a little out of turn so to speak :)

I think "proof" is a good thing.

I wouldn't want my department knowing I'm on this forum so I don't think directly engaging the employer would be a good idea. It could open up an unwanted can of worms.
 

Epi-do

I see dead people
1,947
9
38
I don't see how this could be done without making a lot of work for the community leaders. Furthermore, anyone who spends any amount of time here can figure out who the really knowledgeable posters are.

Personally, I don't think credentials equal quality content of posts. There are people out there who get by just enough to get the credentials, but still don't know squat. Then there are people that may not have any credentials at all, but have an interest in a topic and have taken the time to educate themselves about it on their own, simply for the sake of knowledge, and have no desire to have any credentials.

Like others have already said, as long as the info is good, who cares who the messenger is. Ultimately, I don't think it would add enough to be worth the trouble it would take to do it.
 
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