Transferring to CARE/McCormick

Virgil

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Is someone who works/worked at Care/McCormick willing to let me ask them a few questions about their day to day, etc?

Coming from AMR Riverside, it’s a good operation with good pay( best in the region for my EMT exp level), I just am really tired of dealing with crappy management and equal dispatch. Still a great place to start off and get some cool 911 experience. But just want to explore what else is out there.

I’m not in a position to move so, so LA/OC are really my only options. Plus I grew up in LA County so the shift wouldn’t be too difficult.
 

jgmedic

Fire Truck Driver
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Go to Hemet or Desert Cities, Riverside Ops is garbage compared to them. You know McCormick is owned by AMR now too? Care is a big *** corporation now too. Dude AMR dispatch is awful, but Care wasn't any better and LA/OC sucks in how you're treated by FD. I spent 10 years at Hemet and if I had to work AMR it's the only place I'd go. Or you bite the bullet and go to Kern, work for Hall. You can try negotiating for an immediate spot in East Kern. When I was there, they let some more experienced guys jump out of Metro and go straight there to the long hour shifts. They were medics so YMMV. But worth a shot.
 

Rano Pano

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Poor management is a theme at AMR, & every other private in SoCal. I’m fairly certain you will not get the pay you that you currently do at ANY other private in Southern California. It’s my understanding that CBA is the best one currently for EMTs.

Honestly, if you really can’t move look for a better job.

***Outside of EMs***
 

chrls

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I know you’re asking about different companies but to second @jgmedic, Hemet and Desert Cities/Palm Springs are much better places to work and everybody is generally happier than at Riverside.

There is much less us vs them with management without having a union. Pay wise both the other operations are getting the same raises Riverside negotiated with their last new contract.

Yes, dispatch is lacking, but that’s what you get with private companies.

Overall there’s a reason people who live in Riversides area commute out to the Desert or Hemet.
 

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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Yes, dispatch is lacking, but that’s what you get with private companies.
If you don't mind me asking a tangential question, why does dispatch suck? As a former 911 EMS dispatcher who dabbled in the IFT world, I would routinely inherit a ****show from the previous day's dispatcher (scheduling 3 runs when only two ambulances were available, and similar logistical issues), but I also did my best to make their jobs easier (getting all the information, explaining the facilities that the crew was delayed to do an emergency or a previous run, etc), and did my best not to keep a crew past their scheduled end of shift unless absolutely required.

But I also know that some dispatch centers ( like mine) didn't have a working AVL/GPS system, so you didn't always know where all of your units were, & were often guessing based on last notification, as well as frequently received questionable direction from supervisors and management on how to function, which didn't help conditions of the field crews. And the larger the coverage area, the harder it is to know the entire area (esp when you start handling multiple towns, counties, or even states).

So what makes their dispatchers so bad?
 

chrls

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If you don't mind me asking a tangential question, why does dispatch suck?.....So what makes their dispatchers so bad?

To make a long answer short, condescending combined with lacking knowledge of EMS operations outside the dark dispatch room.

Ive been told I’m on the correct road and to “just keep going” because of where the AVLS/unit GPS put us on his map. We were on a dirt road that dead ended into a mountain. But you know, I’m just the one who’s actually here, how could he be wrong? I’m sure my EMT would love to just drive into the solid rocks in front of us.

Another dispatcher watches the AVLS and if you don’t take the route he would have to a post he’ll call you out over the radio. I don’t need to be babysat.

I’ve also been made available at the hospital and given another 911 call with the patient from my last call still on the gurney multiple times. If you’re at the hospital longer than your allotted time to clear they just assume you’re being lazy and not going available. How’s that going to work?

These are just a few specific examples of the dispatchers I’ve experienced at my part time private job.

As a comparison my full time public agency job treats us like we’re adults who know what we’re doing. I’m leo at my public job so maybe that makes a difference?

All that being said, I’m not one of the people who bags on dispatch all the time. I can’t fix them so there’s no reason to have them get under my skin.
 
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Virgil

Virgil

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If you don't mind me asking a tangential question, why does dispatch suck? As a former 911 EMS dispatcher who dabbled in the IFT world, I would routinely inherit a ****show from the previous day's dispatcher (scheduling 3 runs when only two ambulances were available, and similar logistical issues), but I also did my best to make their jobs easier (getting all the information, explaining the facilities that the crew was delayed to do an emergency or a previous run, etc), and did my best not to keep a crew past their scheduled end of shift unless absolutely required.

But I also know that some dispatch centers ( like mine) didn't have a working AVL/GPS system, so you didn't always know where all of your units were, & were often guessing based on last notification, as well as frequently received questionable direction from supervisors and management on how to function, which didn't help conditions of the field crews. And the larger the coverage area, the harder it is to know the entire area (esp when you start handling multiple towns, counties, or even states).

So what makes their dispatchers so bad?
To make a long answer short, condescending combined with lacking knowledge of EMS operations outside the dark dispatch room.

Ive been told I’m on the correct road and to “just keep going” because of where the AVLS/unit GPS put us on his map. We were on a dirt road that dead ended into a mountain. But you know, I’m just the one who’s actually here, how could he be wrong? I’m sure my EMT would love to just drive into the solid rocks in front of us.

Another dispatcher watches the AVLS and if you don’t take the route he would have to a post he’ll call you out over the radio. I don’t need to be babysat.

I’ve also been made available at the hospital and given another 911 call with the patient from my last call still on the gurney multiple times. If you’re at the hospital longer than your allotted time to clear they just assume you’re being lazy and not going available. How’s that going to work?

These are just a few specific examples of the dispatchers I’ve experienced at my part time private job.

As a comparison my full time public agency job treats us like we’re adults who know what we’re doing. I’m leo at my public job so maybe that makes a difference?

All that being said, I’m not one of the people who bags on dispatch all the time. I can’t fix them so there’s no reason to have them get under my skin.

To add to this, dispatch does seem to play favorites with who they like or don’t like/don’t know. Not to mention getting a call dropped on you 30 mins before EOS, that’s a BLS preschedule with other units posted elsewhere. Yeah, late calls are the nature of the job, but every night? Maybe I’m just bitter and being whiny about something I should get used to. This is probably the one of best places to be as far as SoCal EMS is concerned, so I’ll just grit my teeth and deal with it. I want to spend some time in dispatch just to see what they have to go through, I’m sure it’s equally as frustrating on their end. Still doesn’t excuse crappy behavior and attitudes with the field crews.
 
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Virgil

Virgil

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I know you’re asking about different companies but to second @jgmedic, Hemet and Desert Cities/Palm Springs are much better places to work and everybody is generally happier than at Riverside.

There is much less us vs them with management without having a union. Pay wise both the other operations are getting the same raises Riverside negotiated with their last new contract.

Yes, dispatch is lacking, but that’s what you get with private companies.

Overall there’s a reason people who live in Riversides area commute out to the Desert or Hemet.

That’s an idea, I also considered going South End, I hear it’s generally a better vibe out that way.
 
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Virgil

Virgil

Forum Crew Member
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Poor management is a theme at AMR, & every other private in SoCal. I’m fairly certain you will not get the pay you that you currently do at ANY other private in Southern California. It’s my understanding that CBA is the best one currently for EMTs.

Honestly, if you really can’t move look for a better job.

***Outside of EMs***
This is also something I’ve considered. Maybe I’m getting burnt out too quickly.
 

Jim37F

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Well for McCormick there weren't a whole lot of BLS IFT calls in the first place. Not that they didn't happen, but when I worked there it was possible to go several shifts without one.

Of course "Fire" calls come in all the time, usually closest unit goes

So when I worked there, 24hr shifts were 0700-0700. It was encouraged to show up to station 0630, because starting 0630 was when oncoming crews were allowed to clock in early to take a call for the off going crew. I do say when it's 0645 and your relief isn't at station yet and you're getting a call, that always kinda sucked.

Most 24hr stations had 2 units (a handful of slower areas only had 1 unit, some stations had 3 or 4 units), so they tried to split the calls between the two, so if both were available, if you took the last call they'd take the next one, and vice versa.

Day Cars, which are 12 hour units (and had shifts staggered all around the clock, day and night, some were 12, some were 11½, I think there were a couple 10s...).

Most Day Cars didn't have a set station, theyd operate out of HQ and go post wherever coverage was needed. Some were generally assigned a geographical area so if you picked up 1114 you knew you were going Inglewood vs 1711 which was a Carson area unit. Some (like that 1711 unit) did operate out of stations, and when sufficient coverage was available, Day Cars would be posted to stations vs street corners.

The Day Cars were always 1st up for calls or Move Ups (relocations to cover neighboring stations whose units were allvout on calls). In theory the Day Car can catch every call in the area.

McCormick has been buying all new Mod ambulances with Stryker Power Lift and Power Load systems, tho there's still more than a few older vans and mods in service as reserve for when newer units are in maintenance or whatever. All the new rigs had electronic Q sirens which I thought was really cool (my own FD, some of our Engines don't even have any Q siren 😔)

Pay was essentially Minimum Wage. If you had uninterrupted nights, they'd only pay like 20 or 22 hours instead of the full 24 (I forget exactly, the rule was something like 5 uninterrupted hours between 2300 and 0600 or something along those lines, my unit was always busy enough we almost never got to sleep enough to get that, running all night and got the full pay heh). They can mandatory hold you over up to 4 hours past scheduled end of shift. That was usually only when your relief called off or otherwise didn't show and they were finding someone to cover down (sometimes a Day Car getting split to cover the 24hr shifts or call in OT or whatever).

If you were willing to work it, OT was essentially unlimited, you could 48+ with no issues from Management, but they really didn't like it if you tried to call off for being too tired. If you felt you were too tired to safely work, the main option was 4 hr nap at HQ

Relationship with Fire... Fire was in charge, period. Some of the LACo guys were great, we got along wonderfully, meanwhile the next station over were a bunch of jerks, kinda hit or miss. Even if you're working one of the handful of Medic units, when assigned a 911 call you were officially delegated as BLS unit working for the Fire Medics

If you're on a 24, your schedule was set to that of Fire, so in a County area you worked a Kelly, in Torrance you did 48/96, etc.

The AMR buyout happened just before I ended up leaving for Honolulu, and thats been a lil over 3 years now, so idk how much things have changed. I do know they took over Santa Monica since then and added a couple stations and hired a ton of new people so I imagine a lot of the little day to day details have changed since then, though I still have friends who work there (field and dispatch) even one who just became an Associate Supervisor
 
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Virgil

Virgil

Forum Crew Member
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Well for McCormick there weren't a whole lot of BLS IFT calls in the first place. Not that they didn't happen, but when I worked there it was possible to go several shifts without one.

Of course "Fire" calls come in all the time, usually closest unit goes

So when I worked there, 24hr shifts were 0700-0700. It was encouraged to show up to station 0630, because starting 0630 was when oncoming crews were allowed to clock in early to take a call for the off going crew. I do say when it's 0645 and your relief isn't at station yet and you're getting a call, that always kinda sucked.

Most 24hr stations had 2 units (a handful of slower areas only had 1 unit, some stations had 3 or 4 units), so they tried to split the calls between the two, so if both were available, if you took the last call they'd take the next one, and vice versa.

Day Cars, which are 12 hour units (and had shifts staggered all around the clock, day and night, some were 12, some were 11½, I think there were a couple 10s...).

Most Day Cars didn't have a set station, theyd operate out of HQ and go post wherever coverage was needed. Some were generally assigned a geographical area so if you picked up 1114 you knew you were going Inglewood vs 1711 which was a Carson area unit. Some (like that 1711 unit) did operate out of stations, and when sufficient coverage was available, Day Cars would be posted to stations vs street corners.

The Day Cars were always 1st up for calls or Move Ups (relocations to cover neighboring stations whose units were allvout on calls). In theory the Day Car can catch every call in the area.

McCormick has been buying all new Mod ambulances with Stryker Power Lift and Power Load systems, tho there's still more than a few older vans and mods in service as reserve for when newer units are in maintenance or whatever. All the new rigs had electronic Q sirens which I thought was really cool (my own FD, some of our Engines don't even have any Q siren 😔)

Pay was essentially Minimum Wage. If you had uninterrupted nights, they'd only pay like 20 or 22 hours instead of the full 24 (I forget exactly, the rule was something like 5 uninterrupted hours between 2300 and 0600 or something along those lines, my unit was always busy enough we almost never got to sleep enough to get that, running all night and got the full pay heh). They can mandatory hold you over up to 4 hours past scheduled end of shift. That was usually only when your relief called off or otherwise didn't show and they were finding someone to cover down (sometimes a Day Car getting split to cover the 24hr shifts or call in OT or whatever).

If you were willing to work it, OT was essentially unlimited, you could 48+ with no issues from Management, but they really didn't like it if you tried to call off for being too tired. If you felt you were too tired to safely work, the main option was 4 hr nap at HQ

Relationship with Fire... Fire was in charge, period. Some of the LACo guys were great, we got along wonderfully, meanwhile the next station over were a bunch of jerks, kinda hit or miss. Even if you're working one of the handful of Medic units, when assigned a 911 call you were officially delegated as BLS unit working for the Fire Medics

If you're on a 24, your schedule was set to that of Fire, so in a County area you worked a Kelly, in Torrance you did 48/96, etc.

The AMR buyout happened just before I ended up leaving for Honolulu, and thats been a lil over 3 years now, so idk how much things have changed. I do know they took over Santa Monica since then and added a couple stations and hired a ton of new people so I imagine a lot of the little day to day details have changed since then, though I still have friends who work there (field and dispatch) even one who just became an Associate Supervisor
Would you mind if I PM’d you?
 

wtferick

Forum Captain
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I would honestly consider staying at your location, McCormick, or even Emergency (seems pretty relaxed). Care sort of went down hill when 24 hour shifts began running IFT Discharges in some parts of the County. (orange)
 

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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To make a long answer short, condescending combined with lacking knowledge of EMS operations outside the dark dispatch room.
that is a frequent complaint; it's almost as common as condescending attitudes from field providers, combined with lacking knowledge of EMS operations outside of their single ambulance.
Ive been told I’m on the correct road and to “just keep going” because of where the AVLS/unit GPS put us on his map. We were on a dirt road that dead-ended into a mountain. But you know, I’m just the one who’s actually here, how could he be wrong? I’m sure my EMT would love to just drive into the solid rocks in front of us.
so you didn't know where you were going... asked dispatch for help... they were giving you the best directions they could with the tools that were provided to them... This sounds more like a technological failure, and not a fault of the dispatcher, who was only trying to assist you as best they can.
Another dispatcher watches the AVLS and if you don’t take the route he would have to a post he’ll call you out over the radio. I don’t need to be babysat.
If I were to take a guess (and this is only a guess, I don't know anything about your or your agency), I would imagine in the past, some of your coworkers had a habit of getting lost on the way to post, or taking scenic routes, or making stops along the way... and as a result, the dispatcher is making sure you actually get there. but I agree, that's annoying to be micromanaged at that level.
I’ve also been made available at the hospital and given another 911 call with the patient from my last call still on the gurney multiple times. If you’re at the hospital longer than your allotted time to clear they just assume you’re being lazy and not going available. How’s that going to work?
Sounds more like an EMS management problem, if you aren't given enough time at the hospital. did you let dispatch know you would need extra time, because the patient is still on your gurney, before you were given the call?? By your own words, they did give you your "allotted time to clear," and you gave them no reason to think otherwise. I mean, they aren't mind readers (despite some expecting them to have a functional crystal ball that can predict the future, and some crews will hang out at the ER and socialize with their coworkers.

I was on the road for 10 years, and then took a job as a full time dispatcher for 6 years, so I will defend those people who are stuck in a windowless room, especially if they are being blamed for doing what your management tells them to do, which sounds like the case for at least two out of three of your examples.
 

DrParasite

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To add to this, dispatch does seem to play favorites with who they like or don’t like/don’t know.
if you bring your dispatchers coffee, they will like you. and while single person dispatching, I have asked a crew to pick up food for me, instead of going on a run. I won't lie, this does happen.
Not to mention getting a call dropped on you 30 mins before EOS, that’s a BLS preschedule with other units posted elsewhere.
that's annoying, but if those other units get that call, who is going to do their run that is scheduled for 15 minutes before your EOS? Maybe you were legit the closest unit, and if they had asked a further out unit to take it, that truck would have been late? Could one of those other units offered to pick up the call for you, since you were getting off the truck? It's harder for dispatch to turn an offer down, esp when it's made over the radio.
Yeah, late calls are the nature of the job, but every night? Maybe I’m just bitter and being whiny about something I should get used to.
it's annoying... but if you think it's an issue, bring it up with your management chain. Call the on duty supervisor, or on the duty dispatch supervisor, so they can look into what is occurring. In my entire career, there was only 1 late job that I called my supervisor about, because it was non-emergency, and I had a class to get to, and I was trying to minimize being late to. And he agreed, told dispatch to hold the job for the next crew. but I have also taken more than my share of late jobs (mostly 911s, but IFTs have kept past EOS).
I want to spend some time in dispatch just to see what they have to go through, I’m sure it’s equally as frustrating on their end. Still doesn’t excuse crappy behavior and attitudes with the field crews.
I always encourage you to not only spend time with them (because a good dispatcher can make the job look easy), but actually cross train and do the job of a dispatcher. it will give you a better appreciation for what they go through, esp when they have facilities and callers yelling at them because a crew isn't there at the scheduled time. It's very easy to complain about dispatch, but harder to do the job, and do the job well and not have people annoyed at you.
 

jgmedic

Fire Truck Driver
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@DrParasite, the complaints he listed about dispatch are super common in private EMS here in SoCal. However public safety ambulance dispatch or fire has none of the same issues. Some of that might be policy difference, but some might also be the people.
 

chrls

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@DrParasite, rather than reply to all your points I’ll just reference where I said my full time, non private job, doesn’t have these problems and the quote from @jgmedic


@DrParasite, the complaints he listed about dispatch are super common in private EMS here in SoCal. However public safety ambulance dispatch or fire has none of the same issues. Some of that might be policy difference, but some might also be the people.
 

ffemt8978

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@DrParasite, the complaints he listed about dispatch are super common in private EMS here in SoCal. However public safety ambulance dispatch or fire has none of the same issues. Some of that might be policy difference, but some might also be the people.
Okay, that one made me spit out my coffee. They do have the same issues, but not always and not always to the same degree private EMS does.
 

jgmedic

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Not once at any of three public agencies i worked for have i encountered dispatchers that would routinely ignore field crews, be rude over the air, call to complain about your routing, chute time, question your bed delay status or even call to tell you not to question them. However, every private ambulance company I've worked for has had that happen. So sorry, in my experience, in Southern California, its a private problem and its BS
 

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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Not once at any of three public agencies i worked for have i encountered dispatchers that would routinely ignore field crews, be rude over the air, call to complain about your routing, chute time, question your bed delay status or even call to tell you not to question them. However, every private ambulance company I've worked for has had that happen. So sorry, in my experience, in Southern California, its a private problem and its BS
Maybe public safety dispatchers in SoCal are the pinnacle of public safety, but outside of SoCal, I can assure you if you're slow on your chute time, you will be asked about it. if you take a longer than expected route, you will be asked about it. if you are rude to dispatchers, they don't tolerate it, and field crews have been known to be rude to dispatchers. and if you go beyond the management accepted time to turn over your patient, you will be asked about it. And yes, I have had dispatchers routinely ignore EMS crews over the radio in public safety.
They do have the same issues, but not always and not always to the same degree private EMS does.
You think it might have something to do with the fact that public safety dispatchers are often paid and trained a lot better than their private EMS counterparts? I mean, just from what I read about on this forum, it seems like private EMS in SoCal is a ****show, and everyone is only doing it until they get hired by a FD or PD...
@DrParasite, rather than reply to all your points I’ll just reference where I said my full time, non private job, doesn’t have these problems and the quote from @jgmedic
If I'm not mistaken, you're a full time LEO, and dispatching PD is a LOT different than dispatching IFTs. Not only that, but I bet the budget for your PD dispatch center is 4 times that of your private EMS dispatch center. And I bet your LEO dispatchers are paid waaaay more than your EMS dispatchers. Dispatch is one of those situations where you definitely get what you pay for

But I standby my previous post: two out of three of your complaints aren't dispatcher problems, but problems with private EMS management (poor rules that dispatch has to enforce, and a lack of proper funding and equipment for dispatchers).
 
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