Grim scene - bystander/first responder GSW scenario

[karaya]

Originally Posted by ChaseZ33

Just to clarify are you talking about first responders as in an off duty person first on scene or first responders working as EMT/medics?

Two totally different situations.

I'm talking about both, but for the sake of argument, the original poster's scenario was about about an off duty situation whereby we are bystanders. I agree these would be two totally different situations since while you are on duty you most likely would be dealing with an SOP on gunshot situations.

[PVC]

Someone mentioned the thread expresses a lot of fear. Not really.

I would not say I work shootings often but the ones that I have worked on occasion have been active and in conjunction with LE. I have seen the warm zone go hot, and cold and hot again. Fear is not the deal. I think it is more about experience and prudence.

I face the fiddler while on duty. When I am off duty I most likely will not get involved in a shooting incident.

On duty, uniforms, the presence of an ambulance with lights running make a difference in the way a scene plays out. There are no guarantees but it does seem to make a difference.

[shiroun]

Originally Posted by Tigger

For what it's worth you have much better chance of being injured/shot at a domestic abuse scene than the original scenario.

Not sure what your point is here exactly, but do not trifle with domestics.

Oh wow. My facts are off. My point was originally meant as rathering being hit then shot, but in-fact you're correct. I don't engage with anyone involved in a domestic, it was meant as a.. I guess difference?

[Doczilla]

This is making my stomach turn. Monday morning quarterbacks are getting Monday morning quarterbacked.

While I do agree that no one ever knows what they're going to do until the sh*t hits the fan, I still maintain this:

The treatment you render with your bare hands is more likely to make YOU feel better than make THEM better.

A full-blown firefight has considerations. A "fresh" shooting has considerations. Not everyone has a tactical mindset that allows you to critically think under stress. But before you do anything, ask yourself:

"Is this truly going to make a difference?"

That's all I've got.

[Remeber343]

Then we ask ourselves... Does anything we do, actually make a difference...?

[mycrofft]

[PVC]

Originally Posted by Doczilla

This is making my stomach turn. Monday morning quarterbacks are getting Monday morning quarterbacked.

While I do agree that no one ever knows what they're going to do until the sh*t hits the fan, I still maintain this:

The treatment you render with your bare hands is more likely to make YOU feel better than make THEM better.

A full-blown firefight has considerations. A "fresh" shooting has considerations. Not everyone has a tactical mindset that allows you to critically think under stress. But before you do anything, ask yourself:

"Is this truly going to make a difference?"

That's all I've got.

I agree and would add that there is no wisdom in a person that lacks tactical training independently inserting themselves into a tactical situation.

It will rarely end well and will usually complicate the scenario for those that are prepared.

An old Spanish proverb said "cobbler to your shoes". Simple wisdom from the past.

[MRSA]

I only read the first four responses but I agree

Scene safety. Get out. If you don't have equipment on you (and even if you did) theres nothing you can do.

You could get shot at. Where did those shots come from?? Will that person try to shot you for saving them? Its happened before.

Scene safety.

And even if you had a trauma bag and O2 unless your a medic (start an IV on a sidewalk, why not. Have the screaming patron hold BOTH IV bags ) there isnt much you can do besides for her buddy maybe prop her legs up for trendelenberg and even then what about cspine for GSW trauma and the possibility of bullets bouncing bout the body?

Too much for one EMT regardless of level of training. Call for help.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by karaya

Some of the responses here are just plain silly. Clearly most of the responders that have posted here have not worked in high crime areas or have had very little to no exposure to such situations.

First responders are far more likely to be injured or killed in an ambulance crash than be shot on the streets.

Ray,

I agree, but the OP's question was talking about being present off-duty. If I was on duty, I'd have plenty of friends onscene (additional EMS units, supervisor, likely fire, and a ton of cops). Being solo and off-duty, it's a different world.

First, if you're off duty, you should have no legal duty to act.

Some thoughts:
If you're hiding behind a wall, how do you know that all the shooters departed? Might there still be a shooter present on the scene you're walking into? Even if they are all gone, it's not unheard of for an attacker to come back and make sure the person is really dead.

If you don't have gloves, you shouldn't be touching anything wet, sticky, and not yours, for your own safety. That limits what you can do.

Another question - are you alone, or are you with others? Are you going to drag your boyfriend/girlfriend/family into this situation, too?

My initial response would be to depart the area quickly and calmly, worrying about me and mine. I'll call 911, get to someplace safe, and be a good witness for the cops. That's about all I'm equipped to do off-duty.