How to buff calls in NYC?

[adamNYC]

Worth reading:

http://www.emsworld.com/news/10407495/fdny-cuts-volunteer-ambulance-companies-from-911-system

This is a good discussion too.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ems/comments/211w5y/can_someone_explain_what_it_means_to_be_a_fdny/

 

[Tigger]

If a volunteer ambulance wants to "play" in the 911 system, why not let them? Assuming they are closer, answer all calls promptly, and follow the same rules and regulations that other 911 ambulances need to follow, why not? I think having them listen to the scanner and buff calls is both stupid and bad, but if they are dispatched, because they are trained, equipped and closer, then why not? And if they are not in service, than the Authority Having Jurisdiction needs to provide coverage, just like they would if the volunteer agency didn't exist.

The FDNY manages EMS delivery in the within the city. Why would they want to have to take over oversight of an additional 40 agencies that barely provide any benefit to the system? Doesn't seem worth the headache to me.

 

[TransportJockey]

Unless the vollies can staff 24/7 or two tours, why bother with the headache of trying to keep track of when they have staff and when they dont?

 

[46Young]

Worth reading:

http://www.emsworld.com/news/10407495/fdny-cuts-volunteer-ambulance-companies-from-911-system

This is a good discussion too.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ems/comments/211w5y/can_someone_explain_what_it_means_to_be_a_fdny/

From your first link:

"About 35 community-run corps of volunteer EMTs dot the city, mostly in Queens, Brooklyn and Staten Island, staffing a fleet of about 50 ambulances.
The volunteers respond to an estimated 10,000 to 15,000 emergency calls annually, said Ryan Gunning, head of the state volunteer ambulance association."

"If it weren't for us, patient wait times would often be much longer. We get called in when the FDNY doesn't have an ambulance to send. This change comes at the patient's expense," said Alan Wolfe, president of the Forest Hills Volunteer Corps.

15k calls / 50 volunteer ambulances = 300 calls/ambulance per year, or 0.82/day (4 calls every 5 days). I'm not sure what Alan Wolfe meant when he said that if if it weren't for us, patient wait times would be much longer, and that this change comes at the patient's expense. The volunteers collectively are taking between 41 and 42 calls per day in the NYC 911 system. This is about 1% of all calls, since around 4,000 911 calls are dispatched daily. It is also more common for volunteers to run in the evenings, when paid units generally have more downtime than the mornings and afternoons. The 1% that they run isn't making much of a dent into the call volume.

If the volunteers are running less than 1 call a day, presumably they are not in-service much. I do not see how they could ever hope to consistently staff a unit at a CSL for 16 hrs/day on a consistent basis.

From your second link, one commenter breaks down the NYC 911 system quite well. BTW, the hospitals were the first to deploy 911 ambulances:

"SO the 911 EMS system is as follows. The actual 911 system is run by the FDNY with their dispatches receiving and dispatching the calls, they regulate the protocols along with the REMAC committee, and their supervisors patrols the streets making sure everything sort of runs well.


Historically, individual hospitals were the first ones to put out ambulances. I believe Bellevue hospital in manhattan had the first one in NYC, and the hospital I work for put out an ambulance in 1873 and was the first one in Brooklyn. Prior to the FDNY creating an EMS division, EMS was primarily run by HHC (Health and Hospital Corp.) and the non municipal hospitals. HHC ran into major budget issues, and the FDNY needed to increase their funding and many allege that FDNY needed to also improve their image of having a lack of minorities on their staff. Thus, they absorbed the municipal EMS ambulance that were run by HHC in the mid 90's, and the municipal ambulances have been run by the FDNY since.


Also in the 90's came the rise of private companies contracting to hospitals to participate in the 911 system. The big players currently are Transcare and Seniorcare. They contract ambulances to specific hospitals and are part of the 911 system also. The ambulances will have the hospital logo on the side, but the vehicle, staff, equipment, and regulation are all run by the private company. So in the actual 911 EMS system, you have the municipal ambulances operated by the FDNY, the hospital based ambulances run by the actual hospital themselves (these are referred to as Voluntary ambulances), and the private contract ambulances contracted to the hospital. All are recognized by the FDNY EMS system, all the ambulances have specific unit designations, and all adhere to the rules set by the FDNY. The difference comes to pay, unions, and regulation within the departments themselves.


Whew. Now we come to the volunteers. The organizations i'm familiar with in Brooklyn all have a long history. They were created in the 60's and 70's and were staffed by members of the community. They are not dispatched by the FDNY EMS system. BUT, they are acknowledged in the system as volunteer ambulances and are able to respond to calls within their communities. They monitor the radios, either PD, fire, or EMS, and self dispatch within their organizations to calls in their area. They must still adhere to the medical protocols set by the city, but their operational protocols may vary. As far as I was told, and if someone wants to correct me please do, buffing is allowed in their ambulances, but is not encouraged in their private vehicles (which a lot tend to do)."

 

[46Young]

The FDNY manages EMS delivery in the within the city. Why would they want to have to take over oversight of an additional 40 agencies that barely provide any benefit to the system? Doesn't seem worth the headache to me.

Other than restricting pt. care and mandating the crew meet with their own OMD, FDNY cannot directly impose any punitive measures onto non-FDNY employees, and I don't see that being any different for the volunteers.

 

[46Young]

Respectfully disagree.

Volunteers can supplement the existing 911 system, but they shouldn't replace it, nor do they reduce the responsibility for the AHJ. Using the Sterling Rescue example, who is responsible for EMS coverage? Sterling or the county? If it's the county, then an ambulance should be budgeted for and staffed to provide proper coverage, regardless of if Sterling has an ambulance available. If Sterling has the ambulance available, they can take calls (provided they notify dispatch that they are in service), and the county ambulance can be relocated or be the backup and enjoy an easy night. If not, then the county can cover the calls, as they are their responsibility. If it's Sterling's responsibility, than they decide how they want to handle coverage (but that really sounds like a bad idea, esp if they have staffing issues)

If a volunteer ambulance wants to "play" in the 911 system, why not let them? Assuming they are closer, answer all calls promptly, and follow the same rules and regulations that other 911 ambulances need to follow, why not? I think having them listen to the scanner and buff calls is both stupid and bad, but if they are dispatched, because they are trained, equipped and closer, then why not? And if they are not in service, than the Authority Having Jurisdiction needs to provide coverage, just like they would if the volunteer agency didn't exist.

Sterling is responsible for it's own area, just like a FDNY or hospital unit is responsible for it's CSL and first due. Sterling, somehow, has enough political connection to keep the FD from deploying a paid ALS ambulance or two out of their stations. The county offers this on a continual basis. Sterling prefers to keep its stations 100% volunteer, and force county dispatch to request units from out of county to run their calls for them to make up for their continual lack of staffing. This happens very frequently, typically multiple times a day. Their is very infrequent reciprocation into the other counties. Fairfax had to staff it's M439 with two medics instead of the usual medic/EMT combination just because they run into Sterling so much. M404, another border station, has only one medic, so E404, which has a second medic, will oftentimes follow M404 into Loudon. Meanwhile, these medics, and E404 are not available to run calls in their home county, which the citizens expect in return for their tax $$$. In other automatic aid situations, like with Alexandria, Prince William, Montgomery Co. and Arlington, Fairfax gets back as much help as it needs from these departments. Sterling is the one that uses the aid all of the time without having the ability to return the favor.

Also, as I've said previously, when the volunteers want to "play" 911 in an area that already has a reasonable level of paid coverage, they are siphoning away billing opportunities from the paid department. That could make the difference of getting new equipment, an extra ambulance, replacing an old ambulance, hiring more people, getting a pay raise or not, or getting a COLA or not.

 

[46Young]

Professional 911 units are deploying from pre-determined street corners (CSL's), not from a station per se most of the time. Volunteers run maybe 1% of all calls in the system, which are calls that were dispatched, so the calls weren't sitting in the queue because they had no available units.

 

[46Young]

In my county, the volunteers put an ambo or engine in-service, and are in the system, and will get dispatched the same as paid units. Dispatch will frequently take the volunteer units and deploy them in other areas of the county, typically to fill in for units that are OOS for training drills and EMS on-duty Con-Ed. I would not be opposed to the idea of volunteers doing the same for FDNY EMS - pre-arrange to take the place of a unit so that they can go to training, without leaving a CSL vacant. The volunteers would log on, then be sent all over the city to cover areas with high call volume, kind of like how SSM works. You may not be able to run calls in your home neighborhood, but if you truly want to help the NYC 911 system, filling in for units doing training, or floating around the city would, in my opinion, be the best way to serve.

Edit: If you are deploying into your neighborhood, where there are already plenty of ambulances, you will need to race units to get to a call, which should tell you that you are not really needed in that situation. Go a few neighborhoods over, where multiple units are already running calls.

 

[adamNYC]

Excellent point. I would love to go over to "rough neighborhoods" where there are no vollys, just FDNY working the streets by their city hospitals ie coney island, east new york, etc.

 

[RocketMedic]

That, padawan, is why you are not ready for this alone.

You really want gritty urban 911? Move somewhere as a Basic and start running calls, or drop some apps and start working.

 

[TransportJockey]

Detroit is hiring

 

[Tigger]

Other than restricting pt. care and mandating the crew meet with their own OMD, FDNY cannot directly impose any punitive measures onto non-FDNY employees, and I don't see that being any different for the volunteers.

Not employees, organizations. If the volunteers are not meeting response time or availability requirements, that will require action. And there is no sense in the "dual response" models. Either the volunteers are the first due coverage to their area 100% of the time or they do not operate. Otherwise it makes no sense from an efficiency standpoint.

 

[46Young]

Not employees, organizations. If the volunteers are not meeting response time or availability requirements, that will require action. And there is no sense in the "dual response" models. Either the volunteers are the first due coverage to their area 100% of the time or they do not operate. Otherwise it makes no sense from an efficiency standpoint.

True, but I was referring to what FDNY can do when an employee violates SOP's. The Conditions Boss (field supervisor) issues an NOI (Notice of Infraction). Punitive measures can come with an NOI. For a non-FDNY employee, their own supervisor will be made aware of the NOI, but it's up to them if they want to do anything about it or not. Things like roaming away from your CSL, holding signals, uniform issues, not bringing all of your equipment to a call, things like that.

We had a medic whose shift ended at 2000 hrs. If he wasn't on a call, he would routinely go be a park near the CSL to "get flagged" for a drunk. Basically, he would drive by the park at 1900hrs or so, where there were always a few drunks hanging around, find one that wants to go to the hospital for a meal and a bed. They would spend the allowable 20 mins. on-scene, take the long way for txp for another ten minutes, spend the allowable 20 mins. at the hospital, then go 10-99 - available in quarters checking equipment (less recommended for a call) if relief was there, or advise extended waiting for a bed, which took him right to 2000hrs. Conditions noticed a pattern, but no one from the employee's side did anything about it.

 

[46Young]

I hope that I'm not giving anyone any ideas with that last post hahaha

 

[adamNYC]

As far as gritty 911 im joining another volly in a rougher neighborhood. Wish me luck

 

[DrParasite]

As far as gritty 911 im joining another volly in a rougher neighborhood. Wish me luck

out of curiosity, Bedford-Stuyvesant Volunteer Ambulance Corps, aka http://www.bsvac.org/ by any chance?

 

[Tigger]

As far as gritty 911 im joining another volly in a rougher neighborhood. Wish me luck

Lulz. Running EMS in "gritty" neighborhoods just means more crap. Do you think the crews and units who are paid to be there aren't going to beat you to a stabbing?

 

[Bullets]

Excellent point. I would love to go over to "rough neighborhoods" where there are no vollys, just FDNY working the streets by their city hospitals ie coney island, east new york, etc.

Jersey City and Newark are just across the river

 

[46Young]

Corona VAC can see some good stuff. My old CSL was at National/Roosevelt, but we would get as far as LIC and Ridewood at times. We ran Rikers Island a lot too.

When looking to join, maybe don't mention that you're trying to get on with FDNY EMS or the hospitals right away, just say that you like IFT but want to do some 911, to help out the community and see if you like it. Make it seem like if you get hired to a 911 provider, that you'll still volunteer.

I used to work with Brenda. She's a really good, down to earth person, and an excellent EMS provider. She is on the Board of directors at GOVAC, and still works at NS-LIJ as far as I know. When I used to work 53Y/54Y, GOVAC was treated well by the paid crews, and they got their ambulances in-service a lot. They don't get tons of action, but you could sneak towards Cambria Hts, St. Albans, down Jamaica Ave or Hillside Ave (passing the Queens Village Vollies), to get more work.

http://www.glenoaksvac.org/board-of-directors.html

 

[graycord]

lol, so many misconceptions in these posts here.

You do not just get hired by a 911 service in this city. It just doesn't happen. 911 experience with the vollies is usually a big factor in decisions, whether getting in to fdny or with the 911 hospital agencies. And a lot of paid workers show up to help up newbies like OP so that they don't go too far off the track.
And while I agree that you do learn a lot doing ift, you're still lose something from not being in an actual pressure situation ever.

Redairplane: Very well said!

What cracks me up is the assumption that all volly members are weekend warriors. Some may be, but there are others in leadership positions who currently work in 911, at least in my volly they are.

To answer if I buff in IFT, no. I do in volly, and my other thread was asking about those who do buff in IFT, out of my own curiosity.