Tactical Medic Questions

[kloberemt]

I am looking for training centers for my tactical medic (emtt). I have found some good ones, but would like some personal experience feedback. I would like to find an active emtt to discuss some questions.

Whats steps did you take to become an emtt (beyond the normal emt/ems)

Tips for becoming and emtt?

Daily work life/environment of an emtt?

Thanks in advance

[Flight-LP]

Honestly, I think it is a waste of time at the basic level. Most tactical teams use Paramedics only and it is on an as needed basis. Unless you work for a specialized team, which again will require extensive experience in both law enforcement and paramedicine.

Get your "P" and a few years of experience below your belt. Then consider the tactical side.

[ffemt8978]

Moved to appropriate forum.

[KEVD18]

very few departments have full time swat teams. all others have patrol officers that are swat qualed that do their regualr duties until a swat call comes in.

with that in mind, you have to figure out what your full time gig will be. some swat teams contract out to either a municipal or private service for their tactical medicine. during regualr operations, you're just a medic with the service. other department have their swat medics on as police officers.

ive never heard of a swat team hiring a medic to sit around the gun cage all day every day waiting for a swat call.

[Keeven83]

I was also interested in the whole "tactical medic" thing. So are you guys basically saying these positions (like on SWAT teams) are usually a law enforcement people who get trained as a medic?

[MMiz]

I've found that usually police will have a member or two of their SWAT guys trained as Paramedics. In the case of my private service, they paid for us about 10 EMT-Paramedics to go through a Tactical Medic course. The medics got special gear and training in treating specific injuries, but they didn't enter the scene. They stayed back with other PD units.

[akflightmedic]

That is indeed what they are saying.

For the most part, tactical training is a money maker. It will be very rare to find the position as your sole source of employment or income (as a Paramedic, mind you) as the others have already stated.

The schools that teach it will fill your head with stories of glory and demand as they cash your check. You are then stuck with another certification that truly does not make you in more demand, especially at the basic level, whereas you could of put that money towards medic school.

One route is to maintain your basic, go to the police academy, get hired, complete probation (typically 1 year), start applying for specialty teams, get chosen and qualified, convince them to pay for your medic school or convince them as a basic you can assist them, and complete it all that route.

Another route is come overseas, but again that is a little more tactical than most wish to subject themselves to. As for that route, you need many years experience and medic as well, so if you start now I am sure you can do it.

I do not believe anyone here is being mean or trying to kill your dream. The role may evolve more over the next few years, who knows, but at this time we are being realistic. There are very, very few jobs for a FULL TIME "tactical" PARAMEDIC in the states.

Good luck in your search and the pursuit of your goals.

[mycrofft]

The action is overseas thank heavens. Our deputies are starting to have wet dreams about tac med, but that's mostly pipedream.
Heck, the concept of SWAT is being looked into afresh due to their frequent failures to effect arrests, often after terrorizing the neighborhood.
Advice to become law enforcement then try it from that aspect is even better. Don't be the tail trying to join the dog.

[Tra]

OR...........join the military go be a field medic..

[CH47Doc]

I was also interested in the whole "tactical medic" thing. So are you guys basically saying these positions (like on SWAT teams) are usually a law enforcement people who get trained as a medic?

http://www.atcems.org/Careers/

Tactical and HazMat Paramedic Ambulances

The Austin-Travis County EMS (A/TCEMS) Tactical Paramedic Team directly supports the Austin Police Department SWAT team providing immediate on-scene advanced life support medical care to tactical team members, hostages, victims, bystanders, and suspects in the inner perimeter. Nine paramedics make up the team and were selected from the Field and Rescue sections of the department after an extensive application process. All members actively participate in weekly training with the SWAT team and must pass the APD Basic SWAT Tactics and Operations course before joining the team. The A/TCEMS Tactical Medic team also provides medical support at the Texas Tactical Police Officer's Association's yearly conference and annual SWAT competition across the State of Texas. Team members have also directly supported APD K-9 units during federal missions outside the USA.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iJw0ixLc68

[CH47Doc]

Trauma surgeon is a lifesaver for Dallas police unit


07:17 AM CDT on Tuesday, July 12, 2005


By KATHRYN YEGGE / Special Contributor to The Dallas Morning News


In a skyscraper high above downtown Dallas, the city's SWAT team suits up and waits to hit its target – two suspects wanted on narcotics warrants.



JUAN GARCIA/DMN
Dr. Alex Eastman puts on his gear for a SWAT training session. Dr. Eastman, the first physician on Dallas' SWAT team, wears full tactical gear and accompanies the crew on raids in case someone gets hurt. The team lines up outside the door and, like a well-oiled machine, rushes in single file, weapons drawn.

Suddenly, several of the team members begin to shout. Something is wrong. "Bodie's hit, Bodie's hit," one of them yells.

Trauma surgeon and SWAT team member Dr. Alex Eastman springs quickly into action and yanks medical supplies out of his tactical vest while inspecting the damage.

[USNCorpsman]

if only they could get our MOs to go out with the combat medics

[Dustoff]

Most metropolitan depts use their Swat team officers and train them to Emt-P level ,SOs and rural areas use EMT-B tactically trained teams
basically whatever your dept. can afford.!!

During the La armored robbery many of the shot officers would have loved to see an EMT-B Tactically trained....

[cfrench]

Well, that is a broad statement. Teams have TEMS of all makeups. It is common to have TEMS be made up of tactically trained EMS providers (almost always Paramedics) attached to the team via a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU)between the EMS and LE agency. It lays out the responsibilities each side takes in the provision of TEMS for the team. There are teams that do have a medically trained LEO as well. I don't have the stats of what is what percentage wise. You mention a "La amoured robbery", I assume you mean the North Hollywood bank robbery of '97. This was an incident which showed the need to communities for TEMS due to the decrease in liability in wrongful death claims (oftentimes a more effective selling point to the bean counters). Off the top of my head, I think you will find more "SO's and rural areas" have TEMS provided by attached EMS agencies (paramedic) in the area. TEMS is far more than patching holes, and having a Paramedic trained provider can give the team a far better asset in the long run. IMHO YMMV
FWIW, I am a CONTOMS trained, FD medic attached a county wide LEO SRT unit. I am single role and unarmed usually attached to either the team van or a perimeter unit around the immediate target residence (the makeup of armed or unarmed TEMS providers is just about 50%).

[FF-EMT Diver]

I went to (NAOTM) National Association of Tactical Medics, [URL="http://http://www.naotm.com/"]They have trained military for 10-15 yrs but have just recently started teaching civilians. I was actually in the 1st class.

I am going to attend another Tactical Element [URL="http://http://tacticalelement.com/

I personally would not go in unarmed to a hostile environment and my team does not expect me to. I qualify just like every other officer at the firing range and PT.

[cfrench]

I would certainly be more comfortable being armed with at least a sidearm but arming a non-Leo is real complicated. It may come in the future. Right now when we roll, I am on the FD payroll so no guns for me. I am always assigned with at least two LEO team members but, we do a lot or rural insertions via the woods and I know too well that the rear can become the point very quickly. Right now we are growing the TEMS element into the team so little steps forward.
Where is the company you trained with located? Their website does not state that I can find.

[FF-EMT Diver]

They are based in texas, The new instructor just wrote the program outta GA. There will be more instruc soon so it will be nationwide.

The website is not finished is the reason for the incompletions.

For LEO you should talk with your SO about being an auxillary deputy some agencies will allow you to carry this way.

[cfrench]

""For LEO you should talk with your SO about being an auxillary deputy some agencies will allow you to carry this way.""

In the past I was a reserve Officer in my town but that was in the 80's and they long ago dropped that program. When they started the TEMS program on 04, it was just our dept. Since then we have gone regional. With that, I know potentially have the option of signing back on with one of the smaller coastal town and going in that way BUT, Right now I am avail 24/7 and paid OT for all calls by being on the FD clock (if there is a call or training and I am on duty I leave work). If I go with the other town PD, I will not be then avail when I am on duty as it is no longer a dept function. Also, I would have to be taken on by the other town's part paid FD as a medic to stay covered. Like I said, the arming of medics can be more complicated than it appears. Are you covered by your FT Medic employer? What kind of MOU does your dept have? I do know that some FD and third service Medics have been able to work out MOUs that allow carry while on TEMS duty. Can I have a copy of your EMS dept's MOU? That might help me here.

[FF-EMT Diver]

private message sent

[cfrench]

PM replied (now in secret squirrel mode). :-)

[AJ Hidell]

I would certainly be more comfortable being armed with at least a sidearm but arming a non-Leo is real complicated.
There is nothing at all complicated about it. A handgun license is a one or two day course in most states. And working your medic into your range training days to stay qualified is not complicated at all. Why should a tactical medic be less armed than the average citizen can be?

[reaper]

We provide the TEMS team for every LEO service in the county. All of our members are armed on scenes. They must qualify just like the SWAT guys do. Except our team leader requires higher qualifying scores then the SWAT guys must have!

[cfrench]

There is nothing at all complicated about it. A handgun license is a one or two day course in most states. And working your medic into your range training days to stay qualified is not complicated at all. Why should a tactical medic be less armed than the average citizen can be?

Well, yeah it is. I have my CCW and I qualify on the team's weapon systems but when you start talking to your Chief and they Talk to the City atty, and....heck, even Workers Comp and thier atty gets involved (injured with own handgun etc, is this the normal work for a EMT-P/FF?). It does get complicated if you are not a sworn LEO and you work for any company. This is why only half of the TEMS units are armed in this country. There are other issues to consider like 'role confusion' but that is a training issue for later.

If you have your CCW, does your current service allow you to carry in the Ambulance? That appears to be what you are equating too.

[cfrench]

If you are affiliated with one of the regional TEMS units that are not directly affiliated with any one agency and you have your own Medical Director etc then you can make arming a policy so long as your insurer will go along with that. There are teams that fit that description (I think PA has operating). If you can be taken on as a part time LEO and the Police standards in your state allow reserves on full service tactical teams then you are GTG obviously. Right now, the way TEMS is done, that does not work here. One team in ME has an urban medic who is a reserve LEO and he is actively part of the stack. OF the other teams in the state, TEMS is supplied by an area EMS agency and none are armed (save for one FT trooper/PT medic on the MSP Tactical team).

[AJ Hidell]

If you have your CCW, does your current service allow you to carry in the Ambulance? That appears to be what you are equating too.
They should. But that's not a relevant analogy. Special operations call for special equipment. Most companies don't allow their EMTs to carry SCUBA gear and rappelling equipment in the ambulance either, yet it is allowed for special operations. Most cops aren't allowed to wear BDUs and carry gas guns in their cruisers either, yet they can when on special operations. One size does not fit all. If an agency is not prepared to do the mission right, then they should not do it at all. Go big or go home.

[cfrench]

Yeah sorry that was a weak analogy. The team has built itself incrementally over the years and I saw the tems being unarmed was a start. I was actually very surprised my Admin agreed to it as it is a hit to their budget. I see the tems element being armed eventually but we knew it was start at the level or it was not going to happen. The team started out just doing warrant service work and incrementally grew into a full service team. If they went with 'go big or go home' it would not have happened. That was/is the political reality.

[dustymedic]

OR...........join the military go be a field medic..

Or look up KBR, Xe, any of the multitude of contractors and get on a CSD/PSD element, training with infantry soldiers but being the Medical SME, lots of competition from EMT-P tho

[AJ Hidell]

Or look up KBR, Xe, any of the multitude of contractors and get on a CSD/PSD element, training with infantry soldiers but being the Medical SME, lots of competition from EMT-P tho
I know of zero such operations hiring low timers with nothing but an EMT-B card and a dream.

[akflightmedic]

I know of zero such operations hiring low timers with nothing but an EMT-B card and a dream.

Agreed..won't happen.

[Flight-LP]

KBR with a PSD detachment?!?!?!?!? Now that is the funniest sh!t I have heard in a long time.

Death by the red lanyard, a silent but deadly weapon.

Love it! :P

[akflightmedic]

Glad you went there as I laughed out loud when I saw that too!!! :) :)

Also, Xe (Blackwater) is not even allowed to operate in Iraq anymore and since their reformation, they are getting out of PSD work and refocusing on their original concept of logistics support/ air support ops.

[Flight-LP]

Actually they are still here. TC is taking over the WPPS contract, but Black-- , excuse me, XE will be around until September. I hear they are planning on heading your way. Lets see how long it takes them to cause problems there, god (or Allah) help everyone.


BTW - My days here are coming to an end. Due to some family health concerns, I have to head back to the U.S. for a while. I'll shoot you an e-mail soon..........

[AJ Hidell]

death by the red lanyard, a silent but deadly weapon.
opsec!!!!!111 ;)

[stupid caps lock auto-edit :rolleyes: ]

[firemedic7982]

My agency operates a tac team as well as a basic, and advanced training course several times a year. Are team is quite large and fairly active in the south texas / louisiana area, and have been deployed quite a bit.

I will be taking the course in a couple weeks. I you have questions here is the website.

http://www.ccatt.org

[AJ Hidell]

LOL!

Blown off any feet lately?

[firemedic7982]

LOL!

Blown off any feet lately?

awwwww. C'mon man thats not cool.