Legibility of Posts

[Ridryder911]

Some discussion of use of general language and writing skills have been discussed in other posts. To prevent from hijacking a thread, I have presented an addendum.

Rid I'm going to disagree - there is a difference between writing in a professional publication and on a web forum. On a forum like this the standard decorum is a little less strict - how many emoticoions do you see in JEMS? Similarly, no one (myself included, exept that you brought the issue up) would say boo about the multiple sentence fragments, mis-used semicolon, etc. in your last post, because it is still readable despite that. I'm pretty sure i misspelled something in this post, but overall I think it's not unprofessional looking, and thats sufficent for me.


Medication names are a whole different ball of whacks, becasue there are so many that sound alike or are spelled alike, and a lack of precision can, and does, kill patients. This issue is getting a lot of attention at the moment, and some govenrment body just released thier report about medical errors, and found that the impact from errors such as misspelled medications is huge. I'm sure google could reveal the name of the report, for those interested.

Ironically you brought up JEMS. Have you wondered why JEMS is so easy to read? The editorial section reviews material and does not allow anything above high school level reading level to be published. So reality, one cannot describe JEMS as a "scientific or even a professional journal.

No one is definitely describing professional writing techniques on this forum, and definitely not APA format, or a having grammar police after someone. Rather general writing techniques that represents our profession and ourselves (those that make up our profession) as being at least educated enough to make full sentences, and minimal spelling errors. As you pointed out, I myself make plenty of errors. The reason being, as you described ... "it is on a forum" ...

I am (like others) tired of seeing poor or gross writing techniques blamed upon ones medical certification level. Again, we are talking about something that should have been taught at the fifth grade level. It has nothing to do with EMT or medical levels. Again, spell check is available for free to use before posting.

Ever wonder why there is so little participation from the masses of EMS professionals? It would seem that many of those that write articles or publishes would participate in EMS forums. Sorry, many of the "professionals" rather not have a dialogue with someone that cannot communicate properly. I know I have heard physicians describe that the .."medic might be good in skills, but he places doubts, when he/she opens their mouth"... Yes, we are judged upon our basic interpersonal communication skills or lack of.

Again, I much rather be flamed or "personally attacked" , that is if I could read it. I can defend myself, and have thick enough skin to tolerate any post. Although, that itself is not necessary to get a point across.

I personally do not think anyone is asking for much. To be able to use general English grammar, punctuations, and spelling in a post. If we are going to be presumed as professionals, let's at least present this image.

R/r 911

[Rattletrap]

Can I beat him with a wet noodle? Correction
May I beat him with a wet noodle?

Even though JEMS articles are easy to read, there are a great number of editors who's job is to proof the articles. A single article may go through at least 5 people before the article is published. I have no plans on hiring someone to proof anything that I may post here.

[MrConspiracy]

I picked the right forum. Sometimes, a high tolerance for pedantry is a good thing.

I'm sometimes terrified by the thought that the people mangling English online are responsible for diagnosing and treating patients, then writing it up. It's unfair on my part, but mistakes really do reflect poorly on one's competence.

Effective communication is the most important goal on a forum, and abbreviations, fragments, emoticons, etc. get the point across without needless typing, but spelling and basic grammar mistakes hinder communication and distract from a post's message.

After all, the Internet is serious business. (http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/The_Internet_Is_Serious_Business)

[Asclepius]

Can I beat him with a wet noodle? Correction
May I beat him with a wet noodle?

Even though JEMS articles are easy to read, there are a great number of editors who's job is to proof the articles. A single article may go through at least 5 people before the article is published. I have no plans on hiring someone to proof anything that I may post here.

Thanks for that input. My wife works for Elsevier and takes a great deal of pride in her job and the companies commitment to education and improving the lives of people who choose to give themselves for the care of others.

No offense RR, but I rather like the fact that JEMS chooses to make the results of scientific studies easy to read. I don't like dealing with science and wondering if I actually understood correctly everything the study was trying to communicate. I have read many so called Journals and maybe I am just stupid, but I often wonder what the hell I just read. Also, I like that JEMS allows me to have an inside look at how other agencies are working things out around the world.

This Forum, and others like it, serve a similar function. Sure there may be grammatical and spelling errors, but for the most part people here seem to be genuinely interested in helping others succeed. I have learned a great deal from forums like this. I have even changed some of my clinical practices because someone gave me something to consider. And it helps that I can be on here and it is not a formal setting...I don't have to worry about being absolutely perfect, because others are going to point it out to me.

Of course, this is all just my opinion.

[Ridryder911]

I agree it does not have to be "perfect" by far, but at least legible. As far as JEMS, I think it is an okay trade magazine, however; it should never be considered as a professional journal.

Unfortunately, that is part of the problem in EMS; most are not taught on how to read, and interpret scientific findings like other health care professions. Then again, this is a different topic.

My main point is at least posts on an medical professional site, should represent that those involved have at least an above a fifth grade level language skills.

R/r 911

[Rattletrap]

I picked the right forum. Sometimes, a high tolerance for pedantry is a good thing.

I'm sometimes terrified by the thought that the people mangling English online are responsible for diagnosing and treating patients, then writing it up. It's unfair on my part, but mistakes really do reflect poorly on one's competence.

Effective communication is the most important goal on a forum, and abbreviations, fragments, emoticons, etc. get the point across without needless typing, but spelling and basic grammar mistakes hinder communication and distract from a post's message.

After all, the Internet is serious business. (http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/The_Internet_Is_Serious_Business)

I need another wet noodle!

I have made this statement in court, "I am not from England, I am from the United States of America, and thus I do not speak English."

I will continue to battle the oppression of the colonies by mangling the English language.

Hmmmmm? Maybe we should talk grammar? I know my grammar slips from time to time.

I am here to relax and maybe help someone or learn from someone through dialog. If we keep jumping on the grammar and spelling bandwagon we will chase people off. I have left a few forums for just that.

[Rattletrap]

I agree it does not have to be "perfect" by far, but at least legible. As far as JEMS, I think it is an okay trade magazine, however; it should never be considered as a professional journal.

Unfortunately, that is part of the problem in EMS; most are not taught on how to read, and interpret scientific findings like other health care professions. Then again, this is a different topic.

My main point is at least posts on an medical professional site, should represent that those involved have at least an above a fifth grade level language skills.

R/r 911

I fail to see how an "Online Forum for EMS-Related Discussion" makes this a medical professional site? I see it as a place for EMS personnel and those interested in EMS to gather and have discussions. That makes a big difference.

Many successful executives in fortune 500 companies can not communicate, in writing, above a fifth grade level with out their secretaries and administrative assistants.

[jrm818]

No offense RR, but I rather like the fact that JEMS chooses to make the results of scientific studies easy to read. I don't like dealing with science and wondering if I actually understood correctly everything the study was trying to communicate. I have read many so called Journals and maybe I am just stupid, but I often wonder what the hell I just read. Also, I like that JEMS allows me to have an inside look at how other agencies are working things out around the world.

.

This is auctally a more interesting topic to me than the grammer stuff - I think we can all agree that the ability to communicate is crucial.

It does trouble me that even paramedic programs in general don't include at least basic stastics or reserach methods (I'm only a basic, but im in college, and got my stastics and research stuff through other classes for my major - I think basics could obviously benefit from such education, but given the already minimalist curriculum, I wouldn't hold my breath). The result is paramedics who, unless they seek extra training on thier own, lack the apparatus to grapple with highly technical reserach publications. You're not alone in approaching a reserach journal and having no idea what is going on. These publications are very dense, and if you have not been given trained to read them, they read like gibberish.

Really I think the best thing woudl be for paramedic classes to walk medics-in-training through a couple of difficult research papers in close detail. You'd be shocked how much of a difference it woudl make to have done that once or twice. If medic programs were really intersted in producing professionals ready to go thorugh a career in EMS, they woudl prepare them to deal with the changes in the field.

Now in fairness, I acutally don't read JEMS - It's not available online through my school, and I dont pay for it. I think i've read maybe 3 articles from the journal ever, so I'm not very familliar with the content. However, I would suspect that a lot of the nuances of studies are brushed over if they include abstracts which are intentionally written for ease of reading or comprehension. Those nuances are often incredibly important, but unfortunatly cannot be understood without prerequisite knowledge of stastics, at a minimum. Theoretically the medic education would provide the background medical knowledge necissary to understand the studies, but I'm not in a position to evaluate that.

So no, you are not stupid, but reading journal articles is a skill that needs to be cultivated, and seem insurmountable at the beginning. I dont konw if this has ever been tried, or there woudl be any interest, but maybe you could start a journal-club type discussion here, and try to work through some denser non-JEMS articles, using the knowledge here as a kicker to help get you going. Nothing against JEMS, it may be an excellent publication, I don't konw. But the ability to read articles in a number of publications is very worthwile.

[jrm818]

I fail to see how an "Online Forum for EMS-Related Discussion" makes this a medical professional site?

Many successful executives in fortune 500 companies can not communicate, in writing, above a fifth grade level with out their secretaries and administrative assistants.

EMS = Emergency medical services
working in EMS = a profession

medical + profession + internet website = medical professional site

[Rattletrap]

EMS = Emergency medical services
working in EMS = a profession

medical + profession + internet website = medical professional site

I edited my post for clarity.

I would expect more formality for this to be a professional site. I would be using the terms: Sir, Mr. Ms. etc ...... when addressing someone. I would not expect to see someone using the nick names we are using.

Another wet noodle for calling me Mr. Rattletrap.

[Ridryder911]

I am here to relax and maybe help someone or learn from someone through dialog. If we keep jumping on the grammar and spelling bandwagon we will chase people off. I have left a few forums for just that.

I am not so much on the "bandwagon" but at the same time, but should we not point out gross mistakes and poor communications skills ? Personally, is this the type of person we want representing our profession? Sorry, skills is only small part of the job. One cannot improve the profession, without being professional.

I doubt that anyone that is scared off a forum for mistakes on grammar will last in the field very long, if they are that sensitive.

Again, not trying to "make a mountain out of a mole hill" dilemma; but just common use of basic language skills should be expected on any site. There are some posts that has to be re-posted due to inability to distinguish what is written.


R/r 911

[jrm818]

I edited my post for clarity.

I would expect more formality for this to be a professional site. I would be using the terms: Sir, Mr. Ms. etc ...... when addressing someone. I would not expect to see someone using the nick names we are using.

Another wet noodle for calling me Mr. Rattletrap.

Dear. Sir,

I wish to sincerely thank you for your input. I wish to recall to your attention, however, a fact of which I am sure you are very much aware. I acutally was the impetus for the beginning of this little tangent, a feat which I accomplished through the valiant defense of informality on a website. An individual of your discernement would surely realize, however, that there is a gross difference between informality and unprofessionalism or incomprehensibility. It is the latter which I believe have raised concern here, and I suspect that most would find your posts most unimpeachable.

I wish you the best of luck in your honourable defense of the self-determination of the colonies.:usa:

Respectfuly yours,

Mr.-

hows that one?:D

[Rattletrap]

I am not so much on the "bandwagon" but at the same time, but should we not point out gross mistakes and poor communications skills ? Personally, is this the type of person we want representing our profession? Sorry, skills is only small part of the job. One cannot improve the profession, without being professional.

I doubt that anyone that is scared off a forum for mistakes on grammar will last in the field very long, if they are that sensitive.

Again, not trying to "make a mountain out of a mole hill" dilemma; but just common use of basic language skills should be expected on any site. There are some posts that has to be re-posted due to inability to distinguish what is written.


R/r 911

I left because of the grammar/spelling police over reacting. They were not on my case but it was disgusting to see them jump on people and make grammar errors themselves.

[Rattletrap]

Dear. Sir,

I wish to sincerely thank you for your input. I wish to recall to your attention, however, a fact of which I am sure you are very much aware. I acutally was the impetus for the beginning of this little tangent, a feat which I accomplished through the valiant defense of informality on a website. An individual of your discernement would surely realize, however, that there is a gross difference between informality and unprofessionalism or incomprehensibility. It is the latter which I believe have raised concern here, and I suspect that most would find your posts most unimpeachable.

I wish you the best of luck in your honourable defense of the self-determination of the colonies.:usa:

Respectfuly yours,

Mr.-

hows that one?:D

That is funny and only took 12 minutes to come up with. Much respect to Mr.jrm818 esquire. :beerchug:

[Emtgirl21]

So I guess me and my dyslexic self should not post anything for R/R to read. Ugh excuse me while I go bang my head into the wall. "Highly" educated people (or those who think they are) make me sick!

[Ridryder911]

So I guess me and my dyslexic self should not post anything for R/R to read. Ugh excuse me while I go bang my head into the wall. "Highly" educated people (or those who think they are) make me sick!

You can as well as any others post however you want to, but if you want to make a point make it at least legible enough for someone to read. Remember, how and what you communicate is a representation of you.

I would not describe writing above a fourth grade level as being "Highly" educated, but if you do, so be it. If you are truly dyslexic, you then would realize the increasing need to "proof read" everything.

If you want to be taken serious as a professional, then one should act and present themselves as one. As well, I would purchase a helmet and a emesis basin if you plan to be in the medical field. There are "highly educated" people all around, that are far more "crude" than myself, that have no problem discussing the need in having and writing at least basic level communication techniques.

Again, I don't believe presenting topics using basic language skills is asking too much from a group of so called medical professionals. Amazing, medical professionals (or at least, self acclaimed) arguing over if they should be using correctly spelled common words, and using minimal composition skills. Can you imagine what the public or other medical peer groups could be perceiving? Would you condone being perceived ignorant? Do you really think this raises our image as being a highly educated profession, that someone should trust their lives upon?

R/r 911

[MrConspiracy]

Hmmmmm? Maybe we should talk grammar? I know my grammar slips from time to time.

I am here to relax and maybe help someone or learn from someone through dialog. If we keep jumping on the grammar and spelling bandwagon we will chase people off. I have left a few forums for just that.

I'm not big on perfection, just legibility. If i condense my entire post into an uncapitalized run-on sentence like this it becomes harder for everyone else on the forums to understand what i'm talking about and spelling errors just make it worse i've found myself skipping dense blocks of text like this in threads and then having to go back because the poster actually said something important and besides spelling mistakes in fairly simple words are a pet peeve of mine although i'm less picky about grammar.

We're not submitting to Academic Emergency Medicine or NEJM, but this also isn't Bungie's Halo 3 forums (scary place, those). It seems like we need to strike a balance between correction (and accepting criticism) and full-on grammar flames. I'll be happy to join you in wet-noodling anyone who complains about grammar in the humor forum, for instance. And yes, the scorching burst of flame that some new people have received is a bit harsh, but it does a good job of weeding out the thin-skinned and provides an incentive to RTFrules and use the search bar.

[skyemt]

i think it's important to remember how this all got started...
on another thread, an emt misspelled 4 meds...

no one is saying you can't make grammatical mistakes... but when it comes to meds, arguably one of the most important parts of our job, it helps to spell them correctly...

if you went to an accounting forum, and you found some grammar mistakes, no big deal... but if you saw 4 math mistakes in one post, really, would you want to give him your taxes to do?

it's really no different... and issue of personal credibility in one's field... some mistakes are ticky-tack, and no bid deal, but others seem like a very big deal, like maybe we are not really high quality, just like math errors for an accountant... would it help if he said it was a long day, and it's just a forum, blah-blah.. i doubt it would sway anyone to change their minds...

this is the issue we are really all talking about here, isn't it?

[Ridryder911]

That is part of it, and some other common words that are misspelled. Such as wood versus would, etc. Like I described, I don't believe anyone here is expecting graduate level composition, but at least common knowledge in how to communicate somewhat appropriately. Yes, relaxed but within a common form of usage.

Again, I almost find it humorous any "medical professional" would even debate against using nominal grammar and usage of correct spelling.

I do believe this is a hot topic for many; far more than just the usage of language. I believe the source goes back to training versus education. Expectations are uniquely different, and thus causes difference in opinions.

The problems continues into the the workforce. I Q.I. call reports from different agencies, and have even worked for attorneys representing both sides. It is amazing, how sloppy and poorly EMT's (all levels) get in documenting. Again, however; right or wrong it might be; opinions are based upon communication skills. If we do not at least point out extreme gross errors on sites like this, we are condoning them.

Again, the old adage, if your not part of the solution, your part of the problem.

R/r 911

[firetender]

I'm all for clarity and taking the time and making the effort to respectfully communicate with others. Like Rid, sometimes the casualness of some of the writers gets to me, and, like him also I do see that the way we communicarte with each other can be a reflection of how we are percieved as a profession.
Within that, I also want to be a voice for this to be a place where we can relax with each other, make a mistake here and there -- maybe even look foolish now and again.
As far as spelling and grammar goes, I left EMS in 1985 and pretty much have supported myself since writing for executives who can't put a subject together with a verb on paper. I was astounded at how our educational system almost completely dropped writing properly from its emphasis. No matter what you studied, writing well was part of the grading. No more.
Couple this with the HUGE influence of MTV, sound bites, e-mail and quick-cut EVERYTHING and, to be honest, I don't blame anyone here (especially those under 30) to even realize the difference. That's not a dis, it's a reflection.
I think it all boils down to each of us knowing when we're being sloppy. This site, and each of us on it, deserves our attention and care.

[BossyCow]

I confess to having a little spell checker who lives in my head. I did proofreading in the 'before spell check' days. I have misspelled words in this forum, generally due to typo rather than inability to spell.

I think though,the comments about 'who cares, it's just a forum' can be a problem. If we don't review what we've written for clarity, we run the risk of our intentions being misconstrued. All of us should re-read our posts before hitting that submit button.

The point of using good grammar is to avoid misunderstanding. As in the title of the fun little grammar book that was on the top 10 last year.. "Eats Shoots and Leaves". The tag line on a joke where a Panda walks into a bar, has a snack, shoots the bartender and then flees. Clarity is the important thing. How many threads have the content... "That's not what I meant"?

[Guardian]

Many successful executives in fortune 500 companies can not communicate, in writing, above a fifth grade level with out their secretaries and administrative assistants.


I'm going to have to call you out on this, name one. These people are probably some of the best communicators (in writing too) on the planet.

[Rattletrap]

I'm going to have to call you out on this, name one.

I am going to defer this to firetender's post

As far as spelling and grammar goes, I left EMS in 1985 and pretty much have supported myself since writing for executives who can't put a subject together with a verb on paper.

[TheDoll]

So I guess me and my dyslexic self should not post anything for R/R to read. Ugh excuse me while I go bang my head into the wall. "Highly" educated people (or those who think they are) make me sick!
i'm not surprised that you feel that way considering the tone of this thread, but i hope that you will continue to participate on this forum. i'm sorry that you have been made to feel this way, as well. when i started reading this thread my first thought was "well, what is someone who is dyslexic supposed to do? sit quietly and read?". dyslexia along with other disabilities is one reason that i rarely make mention of someone's incorrect grammar or spelling. another reason is that i view forums like this more as discussions that people are having and less like text that needs to be orderly. i also don't correct people's poor grammar or incorrect pronunciation of a word when i'm just having a conversation with them.

in addition, i'm on a few different message boards, and i have never found it impossible to figure out what someone is trying to say--and i've read a lot of drunk posts!

i understand that it is important to communicate effectively, and i realize that some people will look down on others for incorrect spelling or grammar. however, i hope that on these message boards people can overlook spelling mistakes, etc. and continue to focus on teaching and learning from each other. i hope also, that people will understand that some of these errors are due to disabilities and not a result of laziness or "stupidity" (i hate that word). perhaps, everyone could just think twice before pointing out an error, and understand that it could have taken the author an incredible amount of courage to post the post that they wrote.

also, to help those people who get picked on for spelling...
http://foxfire.com/
download and use this browser. it will point out most of your spelling errors with a red line under the incorrect word. then, you can right click on the word in question and get a list of possible correct spellings. then, click (just a regular left click) on the word of your choice from your shortcut menu, and voila! your word is inserted into the text.

i hope we all get back to enjoying the boards soon. i've learned so much from hanging around here!

[MMiz]

As an English teacher, I've had many students who are dyslexic. Every day I grade papers and journal responses from dyslexic students. I've found that most of my dyslexic students are just as capable of communicating on paper as other students. While I still haven't decided whether or not I'm going to jump into the thread quite yet, I don't believe it's appropriate to make this a disability issue.

[Guardian]

I am going to defer this to firetender's post

It usually all comes back to firetender in some way, shape, or form. So basically you don't know any, huh? I don't mean to be hard on you, but if you make a claim, you need to be able to back it up. People do actually read your posts and take them seriously.

[Rattletrap]

It usually all comes back to firetender in some way, shape, or form. So basically you don't know any, huh? I don't mean to be hard on you, but if you make a claim, you need to be able to back it up. People do actually read your posts and take them seriously.

I do know 2 bank VP's for Chase bank and a good friend of mine who just sold his company for about 8 mill. payable over 4 years.

I just was being lazy and not up to the challenge, as I was yesterday.

I am able to pm you the info on them if you wish.

[TheDoll]

As an English teacher, I've had many students who are dyslexic. Every day I grade papers and journal responses from dyslexic students. I've found that most of my dyslexic students are just as capable of communicating on paper as other students. While I still haven't decided whether or not I'm going to jump into the thread quite yet, I don't believe it's appropriate to make this a disability issue.
i completely respect that you don't want to jump in this thread at this time, but it sounds like you have a lot to offer! i apologize if my comments were inappropriate in any way. i understand that this is more than just a disability issue, and i'm sure there is a LOT that i don't know about dyslexia. however, that was one of the first things i thought of when i read this thread, and i felt it needed more of a voice. also, i saw a guy get torn apart on a message board for his spelling--it turned out that he was dyslexic. i felt really bad for that guy. it was just heartbreaking to read the thread and see how he was treated.
anyway, like i said, i respect that you might not want to get involved in this debate, but it sounds like we might learn a lot from your position...perhaps, especially me!:)

[Guardian]

I do know 2 bank VP's for Chase bank and a good friend of mine who just sold his company for about 8 mill. payable over 4 years.

I just was being lazy and not up to the challenge, as I was yesterday.

I am able to pm you the info on them if you wish.

I thought we were talking about fortune 500 executives, not branch managers or some guy who sold a business.

[Rattletrap]

I thought we were talking about fortune 500 executives, not branch managers or some guy who sold a business.

I never stated I knew fortune 500 executives.

I started to send a PM, I then realized that this is a case of someone trying to discredit information by trying to make it personal.

If you really desire this information, I would suggest you go to your local College or university and speak to the dean or chairman of the Business department.

I came across the information as part of one of my classes. My degree is in Business Administration with a Specialty in Computer Information Systems. The discussion was about effective communications.

I would also suggest that you talk to the presidents of a few colleges and universities, and ask them about how they depend on others to make them look good in their written communications.

Forget the wet noodle on this one.

[jrm818]

also, to help those people who get picked on for spelling...
http://foxfire.com/
!

Intentionally ironic? Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Ridryder911]

I have witnessed many executives, commissioners, administrators, attorneys all that are dependent upon their assistants to properly write and communicate. That is one of the traits of a good manager.

It is not that they cannot or could not recognize gross errors; rather that they have usually performed such tasks multiple times before reaching that position, they much rather spend more time that is considered being more productive.

I can not tell you how many re-writes that I performed while working as a bureaucrat. Not because of grammar or spelling, rather a wrong tone, or too much or lack of information was given, or it did not present the "supposed author" in the right light, etc.

The same as when I worked in a law office. Very few times, I witnessed an attorney personally performing their briefs or legal forms. Rather they would have a well trained legal secretary or para-legal perform it for them. Of course, they would review and make subtle changes, but with new computer programs and speciality edits, very few had to be ever modified.

Again, it is not usually because they lack the education level to perform such tasks. Most MBA's have typed and performed multiple thesis and dissertations far before they reach the executive level. The same as any undergraduate student or graduate student can attest. I know for myself, I produce at the least one thesis a week, all graded by multiple professors going over each meticulously. Each making sure there are no grammar, spelling, plagiarism and that strict adherence to the current APA format is observed.

Initially, I regretted even posting on this subject. I do believe this is definitely something we severely lack in EMS education and training. Doubtful, many had to write a thesis or detail report in their Basic to Paramedic education. Something as an instructor, I require in all levels. I believe it is essential to expose all students to develop a better understanding of current treatments and current studies than just is being presented from their outdated text. While performing this tasks, this allows them to be exposed to proper usage of scientific/technical writing skills.

I know very few in EMS that understand on how to write a proper proposal, report scientific data, and definitely do not understand statistics. All are essential subjects needed to be a professional, especially in the health care profession. Remembering providing care is just part of the job in health care.

I agree, it appears this post has got out-of-hand, but the goal was to make everyone to think.

R/r 911

[ffemt8978]

It's about time I add my two cents to this subject...

I, for one, do not have a problem with the occasional misspelling of a word or such. I do have issues, however, with those posts (and they are rare here) where there is absolutely no attempt to use correct spelling or grammar. We've all seen the posts that are typed using Text/SMS format or no paragraphs/sentence breaks.

Yes, this is an internet forum. Please keep that in mind because the only thing that we have to go on is what you type and how you type it. We can't see the non-verbal cues that are an integral part of verbal communications.

You will not see the CL's acting as the "Grammar Police" unless a post is very difficult to understand.

[Guardian]

I'm with ffemt8978; just make an effort. That's all we ask. This is a public forum and many people outside the profession read it. It's not like MMiz is going to start grading posts, although that would be funny. If we are ever going to be professionals, we must at least start pretending to be educated.

[MMiz]

An online discussion forum is a funny place. I only know a member by what he or she types, and by reviewing only limited data in a profile/postbit.

I believe that it's essential to be an effective communicator, whatever that may mean. During staff meetings, I always watch in amazement as members of our PTSA get lost in our conversations. We have acronyms, "educanto," and a whole language that can be overwhelming as an outsider. Everyone sitting at the meeting has at least BA degree, and most have training/experience in speaking and discourse. Because of that, the type and formality of communication is much higher than a general EMS discussion.

With EMS, we have some who haven't even graduated high school working alongside those with MD/PHDs. There really is no common language/education level beyond the most basic EMT-B curriculum. I know that many EMT-Paramedic programs don't even require the most basic Rhetoric/English courses as pre-requisites, and it's entirely possible that an EMT-Paramedic can get through training without any type of formal instruction on writing.

Because of that, and the diverse online community we serve, I've come to accept our community members for not only how they say things, but more importantly, what they say.

That said, reading one large paragraph on an internet forum, as has happened several times in this thread, seems like just long rant to me. I believe that using basic grammar (paragraphs, capitalization, and punctuation) is essential to communicating both online and in "real life."

TheDoll, I will admit that when I see posts without the most basic grammar rules, I tend to skip them. It's not that I'm anal about proper grammar, but it frustrates me to have to read one huge run-on sentence or thought.

I teach more students with writing and reading disabilities than any other regular education teacher. The focus on my training as an English teacher is on the teaching acquisition of reading and writing.

Difficulty with spelling is absolutely part of some disabilities, and I understand that. As a teacher I do not have to accommodate students who have been provided the tools and equipment to assist with their disability, but choose not to use them. What I don't understand is when my students with disabilities turn in a paper that is riddled with errors, even after two drafts, two peer editing sessions, and use of a computer equipped with spell check.

Because of my own horrendous spelling, I use Mozilla FireFox when I surf the web. It automatically spell checks any text box as I type. In fact it found three spelling errors that I made simply by typing too fast. Knowing that the software exists, and knowing that spell check exists, why not use it?

Again, my position is that your posts online are representative as you as a person. From my own personal communications, I know that the posts in this community are read by CEOs of major EMS equipment providers, and other leaders in the EMS field (publishers, practitioners, executives). Why not try to put out the best image possible?

The bigger picture, without rambling too much, is that every post you make on EMTLife is representative of EMS as a whole. When we all read a story in the news section about an EMT doing something illegal/stupid, unfortunately we all know that it reflects on our entire industry in a negative light. When I read stories about teachers stealing money or doing inappropriate things, I always shake my head, as I know that casts a negative light on my profession. Knowing that, I believe the thread was started with the intent of asking everyone to be mindful of our contributions to our community and profession, and to be as professional as possible, which often means using some basic grammar skills.

Despite being an English teacher, I don't stop reading a sentence when you make a mistake. I don't get out my green flair pen and start marking on my computer screen. I don't correct my friends with their grammar and usage, even though I do cringe every time I hear "The Way I Are" on the radio. :) <<< Emoticon thrown in just to prove that I'm a commoner!

In the words of a famous man/movie character; "That's all I got to say about that."

[TheDoll]

thanks for weighing in, mmiz. i knew you would have some great points, and i agree with what you are saying--except about the bit on using capitalization where appropriate :P:) jk. i'm still not going to follow that rule when it comes to typing on a message board.

i understand that it can be frustrating trying to read a post full of error after error. i also use mozilla firefox, and posted a link to it earlier for anyone who would like to download it. you're right, using some tools can make a huge difference whether you are dealing with a disability or not.

[BossyCow]

I am extremely dsylexic myself and often have to re-read and edit posts for clarification. It doesn't make it impossible (had to type that word 3 times!) it just makes it a bit more ... involved. My biggest challenge with my dsylexia in the field is an absolute inability to tell right from left without doing the little L with my hands trick. (I've learned to be subtle) and no sense of the passage of time (I write down the time everything happens!)

Why perceive a comment about "Gee, let's try to spell better" as a bash on disabilities. Can't we just be objective enough to see where it applies to our behavior, see how we can improve, and how to be better understood? I get no end of razzing from co-workers and friends on my issues with time. But I choose not to take it personally.

[princess]

I'm curious, what is the "little L with my hands trick?" I've never heard of it. :blush:

[Summit]

All internet communities establish their own unspoken minimal levels of acceptable grammar, spelling, punctuation, and writing structure. Generally, this site is acceptable to me. I am not always formal in my postings here. My style tends to vary depending on the subject being discussed.

We don't want the likes of this guy http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y80/TA9100ft/zzz/spellinggrammarnazi6jg.jpg popping up on our screen every time we make a post. At the same time we don't want this place to devolve in the posting mannerisms of EMTFiREGURL911 (see http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=4890 for reference).

I'd hate to see a communal ban on generally accepted internet coloqialism such as emoticons, acronymns like LOL, or memes such as this most apt one:

http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/rawr.gif

[MrConspiracy]

I'd never seen that version before. You win this thread.

[BossyCow]

I'm curious, what is the "little L with my hands trick?" I've never heard of it. :blush:

Put your hands up in front of you with the palms facing out. The index finger and thumb of the left hand make an "L". I had an elementary teacher tell me 'the right hand is the one you write with' didn't work for me because I'm ambidextrous, another consequence of my dyslexia.