September 11, 2001 - September 11, 2007

[MMiz]

Six years ago on this day, September 11th, 2,973 people lost their lives in a series of terrorist attacks. During the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers, 343 FDNY rescue workers died, and during the next 24 hours, an additional 240 FDNY rescue workers sought emergency medical treatment.

Police officers, Firefighters, and Medics were among the first to respond to the disasters. Many gave their lives doing what they loved and believed in.

Whether we're in EMS, Firefighting, or any other public service, we have an awesome responsibility, but also the ability to affect others in the most profound manner. To all those who are in public service, I thank you for your dedication to a truly noble profession.

I hope all of you continue to do what you love, and remain safe wherever you may be.

[Airwaygoddess]

May we always remember, so others will not forget...... ~*~ -_-

[Tincanfireman]

I know that many, many communities are sponsoring rememberances on this day in memory of those who perished, but it struck me this morning how times do change and people forget. In the months after 9/11 you were lucky to find an American flag in a store, and the nation was awash in red, white and blue. Today I was noticing how few flags are flying on homes and businesses and it gave me pause. Yes, life goes on and yes, we are probably more aware of the loss of our brothers and sisters, but I wish we could return to the displays of years past...

(P.S. Kudos to the mods for the ribbon and banner display at the top; very nicely done!)

[Hedar]

I'm not american, but september 11 will remain an indelible day in my life...

But I think we all must remember all the people died all over the world, every day there's a 9/11 somewere in the world, but no one will remember those victims because they live in a poor and far nation... is 9/11 a date to refresh the hate or a symbol of a new hope for peace in the world?

Respect for the 2973 victims of 9/11

Respect for the 325000 victims in Iraq

Respect for who works to save life, in a world where it is simpler to kill.

*

[Airwaygoddess]

Well said Hedar....-_-

[wolfwyndd]

I second that, Hedar. While the 9/11 tragedy was just that, there are 9/11 type tragedies all over the world. What about the approximately four MILLION people who have been killed by the current conflicts in Africa, let's also remember the thousands who died in the tidal wave that hit the indian ocean.

I don't mean to be a kill joy and I don't mean to be disrespectful to those that lost their lives, but there are millions around the world that are dying, or have died, in tragedies. Who will remember them? Why should 9/11 be any different then 12/26/04 (the day the tidal way hit) ?

[firecoins]

well 12/26/04 was a natural disater. It was, in a certain sense, worse. Many more people died in such an horric event.

9/11 was special for several reasons.

The first one was it happaned on live TV. People were seen jumping from 100 stories up. It makes things a whole lot more dramatic than events not seen on tv.

Second, it was the first major attack inside the US be an external threat since the 19th century. Hawaii was not a state in 1941. Previous terror attacks in the US were smaller.

Third, it changed a whole lot of attitudes in international politics from war to bail outs and conspiracy theorists.

[Hedar]

yes, Firecoins, what you say is correct.

The only thing I don't understand is, why, 9/11 is a world business and not only for americans...

I mean...

Did you commemorate every August 6 the 140,000 people killed by an atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima in 1945?

Why in Hiroshima people every 9/11 stop everything for a minute of silence in memory of 9/11 victims?

I think that is impossible to commemorate all the "war" disater, all the country can remember their people, 9/11 thanks to media, is now the symbol of all disasters...

I can remember the italian news on TV connected with BBC, CNN and other TV, the title "America under attack", a never seen title... This is the secret of a globalization of an american tragedy... Like Madrid, but I don't listen about Madrid Attack by 2 years... Are spanish victims less important? Or the reason is because Spain has not an economy based on Oil and Weapon?

Anyway...

Some people died in 9/11, I pray for them yesterday and I will tomorrow, right to live has no age, no nations, no religion...

[firecoins]

yes, Firecoins, what you say is correct.

The only thing I don't understand is, why, 9/11 is a world business and not only for americans...

I mean...

Did you commemorate every August 6 the 140,000 people killed by an atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima in 1945?

Why in Hiroshima people every 9/11 stop everything for a minute of silence in memory of 9/11 victims?

I think that is impossible to commemorate all the "war" disater, all the country can remember their people, 9/11 thanks to media, is now the symbol of all disasters...

I can remember the italian news on TV connected with BBC, CNN and other TV, the title "America under attack", a never seen title... This is the secret of a globalization of an american tragedy... Like Madrid, but I don't listen about Madrid Attack by 2 years... Are spanish victims less important? Or the reason is because Spain has not an economy based on Oil and Weapon?

Anyway...

Some people died in 9/11, I pray for them yesterday and I will tomorrow, right to live has no age, no nations, no religion...


Commerating 9/11 does not mean anything about making these American victims more important. Keep in mind many victims who died and more who evacuated the buildings on 9/11 were NOT American. 9/11 is significant because the US came to a halt because of the horrific attacks. That is quite significant. It changed how the US gov't was configured, bailouts of the airlines, major investigations, a "War on Terror", pay outs to victims, a recession, the financial industry in NYC spread out to the whole region instead of being in one place. The effects of 9/11 goes beyond those who died.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki are in fact commemerated because it ended World War II. I know many people died in the bombings but without the bombing, the war would have continued. Many more people would have died as a result of continued warfare. That why its celebrated. The war stopped. Now the US, Japan, Germany and Italy are all allies. We have learned and moved on from it.


Also, other Americans have died in previous terror attacks like the 1993 WTC attack and the Oklahoma City attack do not get commerated in this fashion either.

[Guardian]

Are spanish victims less important?

Yes, Spanish victims are less important. It is always tragic when people die for absurd reasons, Spaniards included. But, you are failing to consider the ramifications of these different events. The United States is the untouchable and idealistic country that parents the rest of the world and keeps it from doing idiotic things. So, when we're attacked, it's much more serious. When Spain is attacked, aside from the tragedy of human death, there really aren't significant worldwide ramifications.

On a personnel note, I value United States citizens far more than people from other countries. So, in this regard, I think the deaths of Spanish victims is less important. It's just a little thing I like to call patriotism. I don't expect you to feel this way, but don't expect me not to feel this way.

[Guardian]

My sincere hope is that we end up learning a lesson on how to make our country better from the 9-11 attack. No, I’m not talking about a renewed interest in tolerance and understanding of others or any of that garbage. I’m talking about real practical ways to improve our country. One thing I realized after the attack is that we are too centralized and dependent on specific geographic areas. What happens when terrorists set off the suitcase nuke 10 years from now in NY City? Let’s face it; it’s not a matter of IF, but WHEN. Our economy would be screwed up for a while. Businesses should learn from 9-11. We should make businesses more resistant to this sort of thing by spreading them out (internet) and having back-up systems in place in case of emergencies. And this goes for the rest of the world too. That suitcase nuke might be set off in London instead. So, because there is so much to learn from 9-11, we should keep it fresh in our minds and continue to contemplate its significance.

[Hedar]

The United States is the untouchable and idealistic country that parents the rest of the world and keeps it from doing idiotic things.

(Please, consider that I don't know english well and I can't explain correctly my point of view... )

And who keeps USA from doing idiotic things?

You can't live in the panic because your gov. organize a war with Al-Queda, war start? Ok now you don't risk nothig.
Al-Queda will disappare when Bush will leave the WH.
Why you attack Iraq if Bin Laden live in Afghanistan or Pakistan? Give me the sense of the Iraq war... And now is the Iran turn, fear for atomic weapon... Ok, but in last 100 years the only 2 atomic weapon dropped on people were used by USA... And not for stop war, I don't know what there's writed on your school History book, but Japan gived the order to surrend and recall the troops 15 days before the atomic explosion but USA need to test the bomb and don't consider true the notice to Justificate the atomic attack...

Anyway... ths topic is to remember the 9/11 victims, not a flame about role of USA in the world.

PAX ^_^

[MMiz]

I think you need to take a moment and remember what site you are visiting. This is EMTLife.com. 343 firefighters died on September 11, 2001. Since a large portion of our community members are firefighters, it's only fitting that we honor the day when such a large group of FF died.

[firecoins]

Yes, Spanish victims are less important. It is always tragic when people die for absurd reasons, Spaniards included. But, you are failing to consider the ramifications of these different events. The United States is the untouchable and idealistic country that parents the rest of the world and keeps it from doing idiotic things. So, when we're attacked, it's much more serious. When Spain is attacked, aside from the tragedy of human death, there really aren't significant worldwide ramifications.

On a personnel note, I value United States citizens far more than people from other countries. So, in this regard, I think the deaths of Spanish victims is less important. It's just a little thing I like to call patriotism. I don't expect you to feel this way, but don't expect me not to feel this way.

No Spanish victims are not less important. This is the "War on Terror". When there is a major terrorattack that kills innocent people whether it be in New York, London Spain, or Iraq, it is a victory for AL Qeida. I don't see how being patriotic makes Spanish victims less important.

[firecoins]

(Please, consider that I don't know english well and I can't explain correctly my point of view... )

And who keeps USA from doing idiotic things?

You can't live in the panic because your gov. organize a war with Al-Queda, war start? Ok now you don't risk nothig.
Al-Queda will disappare when Bush will leave the WH.
Why you attack Iraq if Bin Laden live in Afghanistan or Pakistan? Give me the sense of the Iraq war... And now is the Iran turn, fear for atomic weapon... Ok, but in last 100 years the only 2 atomic weapon dropped on people were used by USA... And not for stop war, I don't know what there's writed on your school History book, but Japan gived the order to surrend and recall the troops 15 days before the atomic explosion but USA need to test the bomb and don't consider true the notice to Justificate the atomic attack...

Anyway... ths topic is to remember the 9/11 victims, not a flame about role of USA in the world.

PAX ^_^

Al Qeida has conducted operations before Bush was in office and against countries other than the US. Al Qeida will attack well after Bush is gone. 9/11 happaned 9 months into Bush's administration but was planned for SEVERAL years prior. Before that were the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole prior to Bush being in office. Before that, there were the twin bombing of 2 African US embassies in 1998. Prior to that was the bombing of US military barracks in Saudia Arabis in 1996. Before that in 1995, a plot was stopped to blow 12 American Jets over the mid Atlantic Ocean. In 1993 was the first 1993 attack planned by Ramsi Youseff, the nephew of Khalik Sheik Mohammed, the guy who planned 9/11.
They have conducted terror attacks or attmepted to in many countries including the UK, Spain, Indonesia, Iraq, Kenya, Somolia, the Phillipines, Germany amoung many others.
Osama Bin Laden formed Al Qeida after the Soviet invasion of Afganistan. Al Qeida was here before Bush and will be here long after.

[Guardian]

(Please, consider that I don't know english well and I can't explain correctly my point of view... )

And not for stop war, I don't know what there's writed on your school History book, but Japan gived the order to surrend and recall the troops 15 days before the atomic explosion but USA need to test the bomb

Anyway... ths topic is to remember the 9/11 victims, not a flame about role of USA in the world.

PAX ^_^

Ok, since you're a historian now, can you site a primary source giving a shred of evidence that what your saying is true? No, of course not.

Your last statement is strange considering you're the one who brought this up in the first place.

[firecoins]

Japan gave no order to surrender until after the dropping of the Nuclear Bombs. Sorry, its a fact.

[Guardian]

No Spanish victims are not less important. This is the "War on Terror". When there is a major terrorattack that kills innocent people whether it be in New York, London Spain, or Iraq, it is a victory for AL Qeida. I don't see how being patriotic makes Spanish victims less important.


Go back and read what you just wrote. Most people didn't even know who al qaeda was until 9-11. Do you really think these other terrorist attacks were even in the same ballpark? As for the patriotic thing, what is patriotism to you? To me, it's loving your own country and its people more than you do people in other countries. So, it would stand to reason that I care more about US citizens. If someone murdered one of your family members, you would be more upset than you are just hearing about some random murder on the news.

[firecoins]

Go back and read what you just wrote. Most people didn't even know who al qaeda was until 9-11. Do you really think these other terrorist attacks were even in the same ballpark? As for the patriotic thing, what is patriotism to you? To me, it's loving your own country and its people more than you do people in other countries. So, it would stand to reason that I care more about US citizens. If someone murdered one of your family members, you would be more upset than you are just hearing about some random murder on the news.



Patiotism does not mean we need to diminish the importance of others. The attacks in Madrid were extremly important. Many people were kiilled and it changed the direction of their elections. Just because 9/11 got the attention of most Americans about Al Qeida doesn't diminsh the events of Spain. I do not see how loving your country should dimish the deaths of others.

[firecoins]

Guardian

Hedar thought our commerating 9/11 made Americans more important. You seem to agree with that. I don't. Not all the death on 9/11 were American. Do we only celebrate the lives of victims with American citizenship that died on 9/11? Absouletly not! We commerate everyone who died on 9/11 with the exception of the perps.

On the same basis, the people who died in the Madrid Attacks or the 7/7 bombings of the London underground are just as important. Yes these events were not as dramatic to the United States as 9/11 was. But an attack on them is an attack on us. It is an attack by Islamic extremists against innocent civilians. I have no patience for that sort of violence. I am steadfast against religious violence in free societies.

[Hedar]

I think you need to take a moment and remember what site you are visiting. This is EMTLife.com. 343 firefighters died on September 11, 2001. Since a large portion of our community members are firefighters, it's only fitting that we honor the day when such a large group of FF died.

Yes I know, i'm sorry if I say something offensive, I don't try to say that you don't have to remember FF died! Absolutely!
I'm an EMS in an other country, I consider the 9/11 by the other side of the world, I say only that some media (not this forum...) USE the 9/11.

Commemoration with hot-dog and majorettes, FF dolls, videogame, TV serial, Posters, T-shirts, Tea cups and much more...

This is useless, remembre the honour of the ppl died mean celebrate a silent meeting, light a candle on window the night of 9/11 and say a pray in your religion...

That's all, can you understand me? :sad:

[BossyCow]

I think you need to take a moment and remember what site you are visiting. This is EMTLife.com. 343 firefighters died on September 11, 2001. Since a large portion of our community members are firefighters, it's only fitting that we honor the day when such a large group of FF died.

Agreed MMiz, I believe that if that number of our fellow EMS workers in any country, anywhere died in one event, the response within the EMS community would be the same.

Hedar, Guardian is expressing his own views regarding patriotism and the events of 911 as he sees them. But he is one voice only.

[Hedar]

Ok, since you're a historian now, can you site a primary source giving a shred of evidence that what your saying is true? No, of course not.

Your last statement is strange considering you're the one who brought this up in the first place.

I tell you what my teacher tell us some years ago, the history is writed a bit different state by state...

For example, what you know about Mussolini? And Berlusconi? (the same person for me...)

You have only to tell me your version, believe in what a book or a teacher say is not enought, I think first A-bomb was dropped to close the war, i can believe or not about the Japanese surrend, but the second bomb... why? One was not enought? ;)

Sorry for the off topic, I'm only a curious stranger, I say to you my reality to know your reality. ^_^

[Hedar]

Guardian

Hedar thought our commerating 9/11 made Americans more important. You seem to agree with that. I don't. Not all the death on 9/11 were American. Do we only celebrate the lives of victims with American citizenship that died on 9/11? Absouletly not! We commerate everyone who died on 9/11 with the exception of the perps.

On the same basis, the people who died in the Madrid Attacks or the 7/7 bombings of the London underground are just as important. Yes these events were not as dramatic to the United States as 9/11 was. But an attack on them is an attack on us. It is an attack by Islamic extremists against innocent civilians. I have no patience for that sort of violence. I am steadfast against religious violence in free societies.

Is what I want to say... But because I don't know english is not easy talk to you :sad:

[BossyCow]

Is what I want to say... But because I don't know english is not easy talk to you :sad:

Hedar, you speak english much better than I speak Italian! The only italian I know is either related to food, or cuss words.

[MMiz]

Yes I know, i'm sorry if I say something offensive, I don't try to say that you don't have to remember FF died! Absolutely!
I'm an EMS in an other country, I consider the 9/11 by the other side of the world, I say only that some media (not this forum...) USE the 9/11.

Commemoration with hot-dog and majorettes, FF dolls, videogame, TV serial, Posters, T-shirts, Tea cups and much more...

This is useless, remembre the honour of the ppl died mean celebrate a silent meeting, light a candle on window the night of 9/11 and say a pray in your religion...

That's all, can you understand me? :sad:
There are many events that people remember and celebrate. There are many holidays in other areas and religions that I find totally weird. Sometimes I find it even weirder to see how some people remember seemingly sad events.

Many people remember September 11th not only for the horrendous terrorist events, but also for the amazing way in which the nation and world responded. In an era when we've seemed to have lost that sense or national pride and unity, the events of 9/11 proved to us that Americans are able to accomplish great things when working together. For the first time in a long time we were able to be proud of our response to a disaster.

Please don't confuse the American people with our American government. Our government may have used September 11th to rationalize the the Iraq War and our War on Terror, you'll find that a majority of Americans disagree with the actions of our own government. That by no means negates my pride in our country's immediate response to the events 9/11.

[ffemt8978]

I'm not even sure I should get into this one, but here goes.

Hedar, the 2nd bomb was dropped on Nagasaki after Japan failed to surrender unconditionally in a specified time frame. The ultimatum passed without surrender, so they got a second bomb.

As to your question about who keeps America from doing idiotic things, you already know the answer to that. The short answer is no one, except the American people. The history of the 20th century was such that it placed America in a position to be a super power at a time (or two) when Europe (and the rest of the world) needed us to be one.

I would also like to ask you a serious question. Whenever any type of disaster occurs anywhere in the world, which country is the first one that everyone looks to for help, guidance, and money?

On to the topic of the Madrid and 7/7 bombings, I'm with Guardian on this one. While as tragic as they are, they are less important to me than 9/11 because of the associated American involvement. If I was Spanish or English, it may be a different story, but I'm an American so in my view, America comes first.

I also agree with MMiz in that 9/11 also shows what this country is capable of when united in a common goal. A lot of people (and countries, too) often confuse our lack of political will for incompetence or inability. It just ain't so. Historically, this country has generally been divided into thirds on any given subject...a third for ,a third against, and a third that just doesn't care. Certain events, however, defy this rule. 9/11 and 12/7/1941 come to mind immediately with noticeable results.

Sorry for the rambling, but I can blame it on the fermented beverages. :beerchug:

[crash_cart]

I too, like the display under the EMTLife logo. Yes, it is tragic when anyone dies and I don't think anyone of us would trivialize it. As pointed out earlier, 9/11 was a life altering event for our nation and it affects this board as many fine public servants were lost. It is only fitting that this kind of tribute be offered up. Let's honor the people who sacrificed on that day and leave politics at the door step.:wacko:

[PArescueEMT]

I too, like the display under the EMTLife logo. Yes, it is tragic when anyone dies and I don't think anyone of us would trivialize it. As pointed out earlier, 9/11 was a life altering event for our nation and it affects this board as many fine public servants were lost. It is only fitting that this kind of tribute be offered up. Let's honor the people who sacrificed on that day and leave politics at the door step.:wacko:

I agree... this shouldn't be a political debate. this is a date that we should remember all of the people and personnell that lost their lives. To this day, we are still losing rescuers from illnesses related to that incident. so no morepolitics please as I am unhappy to hear that trivialized having been there myself.

[Hedar]

sure...
I don' want to talk about politics, just try to know the american point of view...

I know the power of USA, a power born in less than 300 years by a coalization of european and africans people goes to the "new world"... Many of you are euripean or african, but after 4 or 5 generations you feel only "americans". This mean that in USA there's a big patriotic sense, teached by primary school (i think)...

In Italy people lose the sense of nation, in my city (105.000 ppl) you can find 10 flags, only on main buildings, Novara is a city in North Italy, ppl from south Italy after 4 generation in my city continue speak in originary lenguage of south, are fans of originary football team etc..
We are a little nation (59.131.287 ppl) but we are really different... Italy is united under the same flag only when national football team play ;)

[firecoins]

sure...
I don' want to talk about politics, just try to know the american point of view...

I know the power of USA, a power born in less than 300 years by a coalization of european and africans people goes to the "new world"... Many of you are euripean or african, but after 4 or 5 generations you feel only "americans". This mean that in USA there's a big patriotic sense, teached by primary school (i think)...

In Italy people lose the sense of nation, in my city (105.000 ppl) you can find 10 flags, only on main buildings, Novara is a city in North Italy, ppl from south Italy after 4 generation in my city continue speak in originary lenguage of south, are fans of originary football team etc..
We are a little nation (59.131.287 ppl) but we are really different... Italy is united under the same flag only when national football team play ;)

The US is much larger and is different in many ways from regional differences to political ones. A certain few events unite us. 9/11 was one of them.

[ffemt8978]

This thread has gone far enough off topic. Please remember that it was meant as a tribute to those who fell on 9/11.

Any further comments about the political aspects of this topic should be posted in a new thread in the Lounge.