Junior Corps Training

[Jenn701]

We are a small corps but we have a few junior corps members and I basically have run out of ideas for training to do with them. Does anyone have any suggestions?

[bstone]

Need a little more info. Can you describe your corps? Are you solely EMS or also fire? What is the diff between regular and junior? Are Jr members under 18 or are they just less active? Answering these will surely enable us to respond.

[EMTinNEPA]

In order to tell you what training you can do, we have to know what training you haven't done, which would require you telling us what training you have done, so what training have you done?

[Jenn701]

Sorry about that. Jr. Corps members are under the age of 18. we are an ems corps only. So far we have done the basic splinting, equipment, rig checks, vitals, burns, minor injuries... I think thats it. We are waiting for a big enough class to do the first aid and cpr certifications. At this point we are looking for basic but fun and interesting things to do to keep their interest.

[firecoins]

How many do you have that you can not do a CPR class or first aid? That was a requirment when I was a "youth corp" member years ago.

[johnnyreb132]

IMHO, sounds like you've done pretty much everything you can right now. Maybe you could set up a scenario that allows them to use and practice all the skills they've been taught so far?

[bstone]

This is a sticky issue. I believe that people under 18 (perhaps around 16) should be able to go through EMT training. When I lived in Israel I saw that 16 was a perfectly normal age for someone to take EMT training.

Of course many here disagree with me, but that is there choice.

As far as training, if you want it to be truly EMS geared then have then trained on most of the things that Basics use, just don't tell them it's the same as they would learn in EMT school (or do tell them). That way when they turn 18 and enroll in EMT school they'll be super ready.

[phabib]

Simulated MCI's are always a lot of fun.

You can also do a points competition to see who checks the most things during assessment. A little competition always helps get people into it.

[Sasha]

I don't believe people under 18 should be in EMS. So I think what you could do is focus on school and learning, and wait 'til you hit 18.

[AJ Hidell]

I was a huge supporter of them for many years. But I've just seen too many of them go bad and end up hurting both the kids and the organization in a big way. The incidence of sexual impropriety in police and EMS youth, cadet, and Explorer programs is just too common to ignore. If it hasn't happened in yours yet, it either will, or else it has and nobody found out yet.

[daedalus]

I was a huge supporter of them for many years. But I've just seen too many of them go bad and end up hurting both the kids and the organization in a big way. The incidence of sexual impropriety in police and EMS youth, cadet, and Explorer programs is just too common to ignore. If it hasn't happened in yours yet, it either will, or else it has and nobody found out yet.

Sexual impropriety? Uh oh.

I do not agree with letting those under 18 seek EMT training or be certified to any level of EMS provider. I do not have an opinion ether way about explorer posts that let the kids ride along once a month and learn CPR.

Kids are not allowed to become certified RNs or RTs, there is no youth corp for wannabe MDs. We should follow suit. There are limited instances where children may shadow these guys, which can be rewarding for everyone, but anything beyond that takes away from our already dumpy level of professionalism.

[Jon]

So long as you've got a "few" members...put on a FA and CPR class... it shouldn't be difficult.

Then go on... put them through all the training you can, by law... if the state says First Responder and/or EMT are OK for 16 year olds... have them take those classes.

Involve them with the full squad for drill. Go play with the Fire Department... Do vehicle extrications. Set up a rehab station and do rehab practice when the FD is doing a structural burn or Haz-Mat training.

Go on tour - go to the 911 center. Go to a bigger town's EMS and see how it's run.

Bring folks in. Have the Haz mat team come in and demo and explain what they do. Do Haz-Mat Awareness. Contact your local aeromedical team and have them come and do a ground-ops class.

[bstone]

I know of no 16 year old Israeli EMTs who have been harassed due to their gender. Not saying it doesn't happen but it's not something that I fear of occurring on a large scale.

[Sasha]

I know of no 16 year old Israeli EMTs who have been harassed due to their gender. Not saying it doesn't happen but it's not something that I fear of occurring on a large scale.

We are not Israel.

[bstone]

We are not Israel.

Which is a shame. We can learn a lot from them. A real lot. No one has more experience in MCIs.

[Sasha]

Which is a shame. We can learn a lot from them. A real lot. No one has more experience in MCIs.

Because MCIs are frequent there. Take a look at Israel.

Your argument that there are 16 year old EMTs in Israel means nothing. They are two totally different countries. Children in Israel are subjected to such things from an early age. Most children in America are not.

What other serious medical profession allows children to be licensed/certified?

"EMS! So easy, a child could do it!" just screams "I'm a professional!" doesn't it?

[EMTinNEPA]

*steps up onto his soap-box*

Individuals under the age of 18 have no business being allowed to, being in the process of, obtaining, or holding an EMT-B certification. We are not a hobby. We are a profession. At least, that's what we SHOULD be, anyway. The days of volunteer organizations having 20 members to respond at any given time are long gone. Volunteering may work just fine for firefighting, but EMS isn't firefighting. It's time for us to let what few volunteer organizations remain to fade away gracefully so that history will remember them fondly, but move on to what today's world requires... 24/7, guaranteed, quality assured, educated staffing. And I know, this probably sounds like a digression, but it actually brings me back to my original point. If you look at EMS as a profession, do you believe that children should be permitted to hold the qualifications required to be active in said profession? Would you really want your life or your familys' lives to be in the hands of somebody who can't even vote yet?

Explorers posts are fine in the same way that job-shadowing in other fields is fine. I'm not against the concept, hell, I'm an advisor for our local post. But wait until they're able to legally drive past 11pm or buy cigarettes* before you let them actually do anything in a real world setting.

* EMTinNEPA, while a smoker himself, does not advocate the use of tobacco products.

[bstone]

Because MCIs are frequent there. Take a look at Israel.

Your argument that there are 16 year old EMTs in Israel means nothing. They are two totally different countries. Children in Israel are subjected to such things from an early age. Most children in America are not.

What other serious medical profession allows children to be licensed/certified?

"EMS! So easy, a child could do it!" just screams "I'm a professional!" doesn't it?

EMS! No special skills required! Money back guarantee!

[bstone]

*steps up onto his soap-box*

Individuals under the age of 18 have no business being allowed to, being in the process of, obtaining, or holding an EMT-B certification.

What about the thousands of thousands Israeli 16 year old EMTs?

[Sasha]

What about the thousands of thousands Israeli 16 year old EMTs?

American 16 year olds and Israeli 16 year olds are two completely different sets of 16 year olds. Different exposure levels, probably different maturity levels as well.

[bstone]

American 16 year olds and Israeli 16 year olds are two completely different sets of 16 year olds. Different exposure levels, probably different maturity levels as well.

So then the statement that someone under 18 has no business being an EMT is only applicable to US residents?

[Sasha]

I have no opinion on the profession outside of the US. Frankly I don't care if Israeli teenagers get to play EMT. I do care that American children get to further debase the profession and play EMT. They should be in school, focusing on getting a good education as oppose to putting time in effort into being an EMT. That can wait 'til their 18.

[AJ Hidell]

What about the thousands of thousands Israeli 16 year old EMTs?
The age of consent in Israel is 16, making the cultural implications of such a program much different than in much of the United States.

Which is a shame. We can learn a lot from them. A real lot. No one has more experience in MCIs.
Despite all their experience, is there any statistical evidence suggesting that Israel's M&M rate for MCIs is any better than ours?

[JPINFV]

Which is a shame. We can learn a lot from them. A real lot. No one has more experience in MCIs.
If we had reason to fear constant and continuous terrorist attacks then the comparison to Israel would be a good comparison. While, yes, everyone, regardless of country of residence or citizenship, should be trained to be trained to be able to provide basic emergency medical care (first aid). That said, the big difference is that a resident of Israel has a pretty good chance on actually using their training than residents of the US. I would agree with your argument if the Cold War was still going, but the reality is that we have no threat to civil defense that approaches the threat that Palestine poses to Israel.

[emt.dan]

I;m going to step in here quickly. I have worked in Israel, alongside 15- and 16- year old First Responders (note, they are NOT EMTs, can cannot be trained to that level until 18). Two first responders staff a normal BLS ambulance with one EMT/Driver. The EMT is responsible for stabilization on scene, and if it is anything major, calling ALS. For the normal BS/BLS, the FRs monitor vitals and patient condition en route, and complete the patient care documentation (and bill).

The teenage FRs are specifically chosen for their maturity and leadership abilities, they are not jus random kids off the street. Israel has a strong sense of community service, and this is one of many ways these kids give back to their community, this is a hoby, but considered a job for them.

One last note, when there is a call for a terror attack of any kind, the ambulance stops, and lets everyone under 18 off, then procedes to the scene. There is such a high percentage of the population that is trained to the EMT (+) level, they have more then enough personnel on scene, and dont want to risk injury to the teenagers.

I need to run now, but would be glad to comment on this further, either on-forum or in private.

[EMTinNEPA]

So then the statement that someone under 18 has no business being an EMT is only applicable to US residents?

What are the odds that I'm going to walk outside right now and step on a landmine or find an IED? Slim to none. Israel may be lax on the age because, surprise surprise, they have a lot more crap to worry about. Such as, a lot more people getting blown half to hell on a regular basis.

[AJ Hidell]

So then the statement that someone under 18 has no business being an EMT is only applicable to US residents?
It doesn't matter to me how old any EMT is. I say, if you can pass the test, you can get a patch, just like any other first aid course. You just should not be allowed to practice as any kind of responder -- paid or volly -- unless you are at least 18.

[bstone]

It doesn't matter to me how old any EMT is. I say, if you can pass the test, you can get a patch, just like any other first aid course. You just should not be allowed to practice as any kind of responder -- paid or volly -- unless you are at least 18.

Ok. You should tell that to the Israelis where 16 and 17 year olds on the ambulance is incredibly common.

[reaper]

Ok. You should tell that to the Israelis where 16 and 17 year olds on the ambulance is incredibly common.

I will take following Israels lead on this, but only if we also implement mandatory military service too!;)

[Jenn701]

Thanks for all the input and suggestions. We are a considerably small group my jr corp is approx. 4 girls right now. We just started the jr corp again last year and the area that I am is rather small and the town next to us has taken most of the youth that is interested in ems because they are a bigger corps. I am looking to do cpr and first aid as soon as my training officer has a big enough group senior and jrs for her to do it. I think that some of you are right to teach them the right emt way so that when they get to that point in their ems life they will be able to do the right way not the basic way. As for people who think that some shouldn't be in jr corp I disagree I've been doing this since I was fourteen and thats where I started in the jr corp and i think that is a way to seperate the people who really want to do it and the kids that really don't.

[AJ Hidell]

I will take following Israels lead on this, but only if we also implement mandatory military service too!;)
Exactly. You do NOT want to start down this road of saying that whatever any other country does should be okay here. That would mean lowering our age of consent to 12 and raising our entry level of EMS practice to the Masters degree level. Each country has it's own unique concerns that often do not translate to other societies. This is one of those cases.

[frdude1000]

I have many ideas as I am a member of an EMS explorer post. Do things that are not common things the explorers treat, such as an MCI drill. Do practice harder things, such as proper splinting and taking blood pressure. It is also good to do mock calls with real life scenarios. You could also do a training on radio/communication procedures and filling out paperwork.

[LucidResq]

Arapahoe Rescue Patrol (http://www.arapahoerescue.org/) - Over 50 years of highly successful, volunteer SAR staffed by youth with adults running the admin, training etc. Would I want high school students staffing ambulances and running pure EMS? Nah... SAR is a different animal - a lot more mindless physical labor. But having been intimately involved in this organization, as both a minor and as an adult, makes it very hard for me to completely rule out select, highly-trained youth as capable first responders.

Also see: Dragon Slayers of Aniak, AK (http://www.connectforkids.org/node/438)

As far as ideas... call up the local coroner's office and see if they will give a tour. The one out here has been happy to give our team tours in the past. We've had the sheriff's office bring their K9s for demos, firefighters come by to teach some basics, etc. Focus on a particular disease or emergency - I'm teaching a class on diabetes this week.